Preventing Seiryu leach - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Preventing Seiryu leach

Hello friends! I've attached a shot of some of my beloved Seiryu stone. I purchased the stone being aware of the issues associated with it leaching, and so I also purchased some UNS aquasoil to remedy the carbonate leach. Unfortunately, the aquasoil was either very overstated in its ability to prevent parameter changes and adsorb carbonates from the water column, or the amount of Seiryu was just too much for it to handle. Either way, the soil did very little and I'm dealing with the dKH climbing to 10+ between weekly water changes. I'm typically doing 70%+ water changes with 1 dKH remineralized RODI water, so there's a significant amount of leach occurring. This means that I either must remedy this leach, or say goodbye to my Seiryu stone.

Here's my possible remedy - dipping the stones in a clear concrete epoxy, like what I've seen people coat concrete tanks with. The stones would be dipped or painted with the epoxy and allowed ample time to cure, then they could be reintroduced to the aquarium.

Can anyone think of a reason this may not be a good idea? I don't know long term outcomes on epoxy sealed concrete tanks. I don't know how/if the fact that this is a high-tech tank running abundant amounts of CO2 would cause problems for longevity. I don't know if my pleco will cause damage to the epoxy and potentially ingest bits while trying to eat algae off of it.

Any insight on this would be appreciated. I'd love to keep my stone, but I can't have parameter swings like this.
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 11:02 PM
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Anyone? I am on the same boat. I bought 15 lbs Yamaya stone but most of the pieces are a little bigger than 2 inches
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 11:22 PM
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How long has the stone been in there?


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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-06-2019, 11:44 PM
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Well I don't have any experience epoxy-dipping seriyu stones, but do have some experience with using them in aquariums. Back when I first bought these, they were marketed as inert or from one wholesaler, "mostly inert." They (at least what I purchased) decidedly are not. I am absolutely dumbfounded that these are so commonly seen in Caridina shrimp tanks. Perhaps there are versions that look much the same but have waaaaay less carbonates than mine did? But from my experience from no fewer than 3 batches, they range from KH boosting to flat out crushed coral level alkaline. If you feel like a dip is something you can pull off, it really ought to work if you can coat every square millimeter. Please keep us updated if you go this route, I'm ashamed to say I tossed mine in an African cichlid tank.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-07-2019, 04:36 PM
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If it were me, I'd try a couple coats of epoxy or sealant.

There may be folks on the forum to try this in the past. Worth doing a search.

I've never used natural stone but have made faux epoxy "rocks" in the past and have run into no issues with myriad shrimp environments. Have had some of them in tanks for 7-8 years.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 01:32 AM
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How long has the stone been in there?
My stones been in my tank at least 4 months
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 02:05 AM
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Anyone? I am on the same boat. I bought 15 lbs Yamaya stone but most of the pieces are a little bigger than 2 inches

Yamaya are inert, I have them in my tank!
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-08-2019, 03:48 AM
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Yamaya are inert, I have them in my tank!
I do know that Yamaya are ok but I bought 15 pounds and pieces are mostly too small to do any scaping
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 12:04 PM
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You could use silicone or reef epoxy putty to combine Yamaya pieces into something larger. I've had to do that countless times through the years and it's always worked out really well.

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I do know that Yamaya are ok but I bought 15 pounds and pieces are mostly too small to do any scaping


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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 04:15 PM
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I decided to rescape with wood and lava rock. A good replacement for sieryu is dragon stone if you still want that kind of look.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 04:38 PM
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I don't see how sieryu and dragonstone look similar at all...

There's also clear plasti dip... works alright. If you are comfortable doing it an acid bath really brings out the colors of sieryu ;/
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-25-2019, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by mgeorges View Post
Hello friends! I've attached a shot of some of my beloved Seiryu stone. I purchased the stone being aware of the issues associated with it leaching, and so I also purchased some UNS aquasoil to remedy the carbonate leach. Unfortunately, the aquasoil was either very overstated in its ability to prevent parameter changes and adsorb carbonates from the water column, or the amount of Seiryu was just too much for it to handle. Either way, the soil did very little and I'm dealing with the dKH climbing to 10+ between weekly water changes. I'm typically doing 70%+ water changes with 1 dKH remineralized RODI water, so there's a significant amount of leach occurring. This means that I either must remedy this leach, or say goodbye to my Seiryu stone.

Here's my possible remedy - dipping the stones in a clear concrete epoxy, like what I've seen people coat concrete tanks with. The stones would be dipped or painted with the epoxy and allowed ample time to cure, then they could be reintroduced to the aquarium.

Can anyone think of a reason this may not be a good idea? I don't know long term outcomes on epoxy sealed concrete tanks. I don't know how/if the fact that this is a high-tech tank running abundant amounts of CO2 would cause problems for longevity. I don't know if my pleco will cause damage to the epoxy and potentially ingest bits while trying to eat algae off of it.

Any insight on this would be appreciated. I'd love to keep my stone, but I can't have parameter swings like this.
I wonder if treatment with Muriatic Acid will help prevent the leaching. Usually it is used to darken the stone and bring out more contrast but it might 'patina' the surface and slow down leaching.

SEIRYU STONES AND MURIATIC ACID


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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 07:12 PM Thread Starter
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I wonder if treatment with Muriatic Acid will help prevent the leaching. Usually it is used to darken the stone and bring out more contrast but it might 'patina' the surface and slow down leaching.

SEIRYU STONES AND MURIATIC ACID
Muriatic acid didn't impact leaching much, if any. I added the remainder of my Seiryu to my high tech 10 gallon puffer tank, and the KH climbs from 1 to 5 dKH by end of week. I let that stone sit in a Muriatic acid bath overnight, just poured acid straight from a jug until it covered the rocks in a 5 gallon bucket, no dilution. I will say it made the stone look really good, but that's about it.

My CO2 in the 29 gallon was terribly high and I believe was the cause of frequent fish illnesses. I determined my CO2 to be in the 75 ppm range. Yikes. After getting things calibrated into the ~30 ppm range, the KH now tends to rise to only 5 by end of week. I'm planning to do a full tear down and re-scape of the 29 in the very near future, if I decide I can longer live with the KH leach, I'll give coating the rocks a try.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mgeorges View Post
Muriatic acid didn't impact leaching much, if any. I added the remainder of my Seiryu to my high tech 10 gallon puffer tank, and the KH climbs from 1 to 5 dKH by end of week. I let that stone sit in a Muriatic acid bath overnight, just poured acid straight from a jug until it covered the rocks in a 5 gallon bucket, no dilution. I will say it made the stone look really good, but that's about it.
Disappointing I guess it doesn't work for that thanks for testing it and sharing your findings.

Quote:
My CO2 in the 29 gallon was terribly high and I believe was the cause of frequent fish illnesses. I determined my CO2 to be in the 75 ppm range. Yikes. After getting things calibrated into the ~30 ppm range, the KH now tends to rise to only 5 by end of week. I'm planning to do a full tear down and re-scape of the 29 in the very near future, if I decide I can longer live with the KH leach, I'll give coating the rocks a try.
Careful about using the Tom Barr calculation chart for CO2, doubtful you were able to get 75ppm in your water without killing your livestock. With fluctuating kH it would be difficult to know how much CO2 you have. Best way is look at your pH drop (degassed - injected low point) and assume 1ph is 30ppm. I would expect your pH rises over the week so I would remove a sample of your water an hour or two after a water change, let that sample sit or run air bubbler for 24 hours and take that as your starting ph and also measure your tank water just before you turn off CO2 on the first day after the water change as your endpoint. Basically you should be ignoring the kh/ph/CO2 chart and just measuring the ph drop and assuming CO2 = 30ppm/1ph difference.
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Last edited by cl3537; 06-26-2019 at 08:24 PM. Reason: ...
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