300 Gal Low-Maint System (56k Warned) - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-13-2009, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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Cool 300 Gal Low-Maint System (56k Warned)

Updated April 15th, 2010
It has been a few months, and I've finally gotten my snake cage with 75gal plywood tank set up and running with everything else. I won't be adding anything else to this system for about 3 years.
Almost a year of progress chronicled mostly in this post.


Tank Size:
90 gal 48"W x 18"D x 24"H
75 gal 48"W x 18"D x 20"H
75 gal 48"W x 19.5"D x 19.5"H Plywood Snake tank+enclosure
70 gal Sump 36"x24"x24"
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About 300 gal Total Water in the system.
(Yes, they're all connected with PVC pipe into one system in my garage)

Date Started: May 4th, 2009

Lighting:
(On the 90 gal)
1 AHSupply 2x55W fixture with 10K bulbs from hellolights.com running for a total of 8 hours during the day. (4 hours on, 1 hour off, 4 hours on)
2 3W LED spotlights 14 hours a day, this is just enough light so that the tank is viewable. What's the point if you can only see in the tank 8 hours a day.
About 1W of blue LEDs on 24/7 that serve as 'moonlight' at night
(On the 75 gal)
1 AHSupply 2x55W fixture with 10K bulbs from hellolights.com running for a total of 8 hours during the day. (4 hours on, 1 hour off, 4 hours on)
1 3W LED spotlight 14 hours a day, this is just enough light so that the tank is viewable.
(On the 75 gal plywood)
1 AHSupply 2x55W fixture with 10K bulbs from hellolights.com running for a total of 8 hours during the day. (4 hours on, 1 hour off, 4 hours on)


Filtration:
Custom PVC plumbing and spraybar, input and output garden hose attachments for quick and easy water changes
Custom 70 gal sump
- 20 pounds of lava rock (even Seaworld uses this for filtration in some of their tanks)
- Fluval Bio-Max Rings
- FOUR Lustar Hydro Sponge 5 - rated 125gal each
- Tetratec Deep Water DW24-2 Air pump running 1 Lustar Sponge, the other 3 are temporarily on a 2nd backup Lifeguard Quiet One 4000 pump because the air pump is failing.
- Lifeguard Trio 2500gal rated pond prefilter
- Lifeguard Quiet One 4000 pump to return water from the sump to the upper 90gal tank. I mentally estimate that it runs about 400-500gph but I have not measured it's actual flowrate.
- Poret Filter Foam | TWO 19.5" x 19.5" x 4" 30 PPI foam blocks with the full system flowrate going through them. That's over 3000 cubic inches of filtration media. Compare that to your expensive canister filter.
Numerous other sponges trying to keep critters from moving tank to tank to tank to sump.


CO2:
NONE

Substrate:
(In 90 gal)
local Texan topsoil, no cap. 4" in front, 8" in back.
(In the 75 gal)
local Texan topsoil, averages about 2-3", capped with flourite, otherwise my large pleco makes a huge mess of everything

Water Parameters:
I have very soft very alkaline water.
GH (General Hardness): 1 to 4 degrees German hardness
KH (Carbonate Hardness): 12 to 16 degrees German Hardness
pH: 8.5 to 8.8
NO2 (Nitrite): 0
NH3/NH4+ (Ammonia): 0

Water Change:
changing 70 gal (30% change) only as necessary to keep up with evaporation, tannins, and any water cloudiness.


Fertilization:
Flourish when I remember, 24+hours after water change (the suppliment, not excel)

Plants:
E. Vesuvius - growing, but the rabbit snails eat the runners...
E. tennelus micro - I have a few plants that have gotten rediculously too large to call "micro" but it's not really spreading.
Various Cryptocoryne (green and bronze) - excellent growth
Crinum thaianum "Onion Plant"
Rotala macrandra red
Rotala mini type Z
possible some other rotala type, I got sent several batches of unidentified extras.
Aponogeton - http://aponolily.com/plants/ excellent growth and blooms
Dwarf Red Lily - http://aponolily.com/plants/ did incredible in the bottom 75gal, so-so in the top 90gal. Currently hibernating for winter.
Hygrophila polysperma 'Sunset' - keeps fighting it's way up the back glass.
Guppy grass - I remove it by the pound. Talk about a "fast grower". I now have a couple of typical crawfish boil specimens in a tank that actually eat this faster than it grows.
Anacharis - I keep a few stems around, but it's not doing all that great.



Many thanks to cdirus, Torpedobarb, and oblongshrimp for providing plants through Swap n Shop

Inhabitants:
Top 90gal Tank
MTS Malasian Trumpet Snails, tens of thousands, no trouble breeding these, PM me if you want some I've sold thousands.
RCS - I started with 75 and pulled out a few to seed my 10g and 15g tanks too. No clue how many now, but it's more than 75.
6 Amano Shrimp
1 large Filter Feeding Shrimp, camps on the pump output of course.
3 Calico Bristlenose Plecos from Saganco BREEDING! Fry everywhere since Dec 2009.
2 Rubber Lip Plecos, will RAOK for cost of shipment if I can catch them.
5 Red Neon Goby from invertzfactory
5 Yellow Rabbit Snails from invertzfactory
Middle 75gal plywood tank
I haven't decided what to put in here yet. I'd like to try some CPO I think.
Bottom 75gal Tank
MTS, Ramshorn
Guppies (We'll just leave that a plural, I'm not counting them and besides they keep spraying babies everywhere)
2 Mollies (left from one time I let my daughters pick fish)
1 Common Pleco (6+ years old, 10+ inches, rules this tank)
Calico BNP Fry that managed to swim downstream in the 1.5" PVC.



Goals:
I don't want to have to touch this thing for maintenance more often than every 2 weeks. preferably much longer than that.
I tend to prefer tanks that most consider "Overgrown", I think I've finally managed to get there in the 90gal.

Chronological Pictures from filling the tank at the top to the most recent tank shot at the bottom.

May 13th, 2009 - Filled

May 22nd, 2009 - Overflow Drain testing, temporary sump in use.


June 2nd, 2009 My final pack of plants arrived from oblongshrimp, I also picked up all new driftwood this weekend harvested from the wild. This initiated a very large rescape with what I think are GREAT results.

June 8th, 2009 - There is noticable growth on a lot of the oldest plants.


July 10th, 2009 - I now know for sure which of the plants like my tank and which don't. Wish more than half the stuff had survived. I've got some serious algae going now too.


August 19th, 2009 - Algae, Algae, and more Algae... I've cut the lights back 50% intensity. Still at 8 hours, but it looks like that has to get cut back now too.


October 5th, 2009 - I've just about got a really nice primordial look going. Things seem to be balancing out quite nicely.
Wish the shrimp colony would really take off though, doesn't seem like there's any more in there now than when I bought the first 75.
This shot was taken with only the 2 3W LED spots on, not the big lights.


December 27, 2009 - up until recently, I've only been posting pictures of the top 90gal tank in this system. Finally I'm ready to show some progress on the bottom 75gal.
90gal top tank - growing well

75gal bottom tank - The terra cotta is temporary, trying to see if my big pleco prefers it to the underside of the driftwood. So far, no interest in the pottery, so it will be moved back out soon.
The lily on the left was HUGE and covered half the tank surface a month ago. Now it has decided it is hibernating for winter.



Comments:
A future project will be to redesign and rebuild the main sump to move one of my big pieces of poret filter foam into it.

I'm putting further updates as new posts since this post has gotten far too long and tedious to continue adding to it.

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Last edited by ezcry4t3d; 04-16-2010 at 03:13 AM.
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 12:54 AM
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I would say if you are not wanting to do ferts or CO2 then go with less lighting, 1.5 to 2 watts/gal for about 8 hours which would be 6 bulbs for 156watts for 1.8watts/gal. I would at least make sure you use some type of root tabs or use the Mineralized substrate and then you won't need to worry about ferts. I would also really clean that front glass good since this is going to be your most viewable side.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 01:13 AM
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GE CF bulbs have a lot of re-strike as I've read so it may not be as much light as your thinking. Substrate at +4" without a cap is very deep. My understanding was that soil subs were recommended at 1" soil and 1" cap material. What type soil did you use? Should be interesting as you go forward with the project. Best of luck and welcome to TPT.


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If at first you don't succeed,,, keep kicking it
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2-75g planted, 3-55g planted, 110g w/30g sump, 2018 update returning to sanity (Nutz)
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-14-2009, 03:15 AM Thread Starter
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Responding/answering everything, sorry for the wall of text.

It's extremely hard for me to judge how these bulbs compare to a real professional grade lighting system since this is the only kind of lighting I've ever used.

I'm not at all adverse to using some kind of root tab or other fert if I have to to get decent results, especially if I only have to dose it every 2 weeks+ and the price isn't terribly high. There is pretty much no way I'm getting a canister of CO2 going though unless someone else wants to come pay for and maintain it.

I've got Malaysian Trumpet Snails, Plants, and the big filter system in transit. Everything should be here by Friday. Once it's all in, I'll give the glass a good cleaning. The circulation and sump should take care of most of the debris that's still clinging around.


There's a number of reasons I made the substrate so deep:

First off, the tank is 25 3/4" from the very bottom to the top of the rim. With the 12" wide center brace and the spillover drain in the way, it's impossible to reach most of the bottom without using a ladder, mask, and snorkel (and I'm 6' tall too). One simple solution was to bring the substrate up higher. (The ceiling also gets in the way since this tank sits on top of my 50 gal on the same stand. I'm VERY limited on my floorspace for tanks.)

The first animals going in the tank are Malaysian Trumpet Snails. I've never kept them before, but I understand that they spend over half their time under the substrate anyway, so I want them to have plenty of room.

I've never had a tank stand that was solid under the center of the tank. When I was a kid it was always the cheap metal stands, and now I make them custom with 2x4s to fit the tank. Every tank I've had you can look underneath and see that every plants roots have hit the bottom and then spread out along the glass. It seems to me that the plants wouldn't mind rooting a bit deeper.


I originally planned on capping the topsoil with something, but I couldn't decide with what, sand, gravel, fluorite... In the absence of a decision, it ended up bare and I kind of like the look. I was worried about how well it would hold the plants and keep them down. I tried putting in a plant from my other tank for a day, and after it had settled around it it actually holds better than the fluorite gravel in my other tank, almost like suction was holding the plant in. I'm not really sure how you plant without mixing up the layers anyway. I will certainly cap it if I have trouble with plants floating around everywhere or it kicking up tons of dirt that doesn't readily clear every time it gets touched. It looks very natural and chaotic right now, like the bottom of some pond. The pictures don't do it justice.

About 1/6th of the soil is from right out of my backyard. I put in some fence and this is what the auger dug up when I put in the posts. It has a really high clay content. This is mixed with 5 40# bags of a locally (Texas) gathered topsoil $0.98 per 40#. I got it thoroughly wet and mixed it completely, removing anything that floated. I did not strain it out, but I did remove any rocks. The topsoil has a pretty high clay content, a lot of sand, and a small amount of shredded wood that is high enough specific gravity to sink completely. I rinsed the mixture out at least 3 times completely and I let the hose run through it for hours. It has NOT turned my water yellow/brown even in the slightest. It also has no noticeable odor at all, and I've got a pretty sensitive nose. Even after 3+ days in the tank. I have run some airstones and powerheads for circulation.

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Last edited by ezcry4t3d; 05-29-2009 at 02:07 AM.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 02:23 AM Thread Starter
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I've been updating the first post in the thread.
It's been just over 2 weeks since the water first went in.
3 Questions:

Anyone see any growth?

Would you consider 4x55W from http://www.ahsupply.com/ to be the best bang for the buck since I already have a custom hood?

What do you think of the piece of wood? Should I add more? If so, another large piece, or some smaller pieces?

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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 03:03 AM
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AHS kits are great from what I hear. That substrate sure is deep. I would suggest some mts to stir it up a little. If you have more wood, then I would definitely add it.

-Chris

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-03-2009, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
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Tank looks totally different now. (Latest pic is in the first post!) Final plant package is in, and I procured new driftwood. Hardscape is pretty much set now for a very long time. Couple of small arrangement issues to deal with and then I can work on getting all the inhabitants moved in. MTS are breeding like gangbusters.

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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-04-2009, 05:33 AM Thread Starter
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I just finished applying what I hope will be the final coat of Goop Coat-it epoxy to my sump. I'm going to give it at least 24 hours to dry before I fill it with water to leak check it. Critically full it will hold 77 gallons. Anything below 40 gallons will start inhibiting some of the planned filtration media.




Anyone want to take bets on whether it will leak?

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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-04-2009, 04:03 PM
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Why not just make sump out of Acrylic ???

New set-up looking better.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-06-2009, 03:28 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rbarn View Post
Why not just make sump out of Acrylic ???

New set-up looking better.

I have a much harder time working with Acrylic than with plywood. Cutting Acrylic is a real PITA for me, and I can't imagine trying to drill holes for bulkheads in it. Perhaps it's just because I don't have much experience with Acrylic. This whole sump was made out of a single sheet of plywood, I bet the Acrylic would have been more expensive. I imagine I'd have had to use pretty thick Acrylic for an 80 gallon tank. I also wanted to give this epoxy a try, a new experience/challenge. There are other people on here that have used it for very large tanks. If it works out well I may end up using it for even larger projects.

I'm glad someone besides me think the tank looks better after that last $40 plant pack. Makes the money spent more worthwhile.
I'm having some trouble getting it to clear up this time though... Hopefully a big water change or two will do the trick. Last time I used one of the Bio-Clear packs that comes in the bags of Eco-Complete. (I got a bag for my new 10gal, but it was already clear and didn't need it) Anyone know what's in those packets?

I filled the sump with water earlier today, all the way to the critical level that it should never reach in service. So far, no visible leaking. Assuming it stays leak free, it'll get filled with some media and go into service Sunday night probably.

Here's a picture of my baby MTS. They're so cute, lol. Snail population has at least doubled from what I started with.

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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-11-2009, 04:57 AM Thread Starter
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Added a new full tank shot in the first post. It's been a month since the last one and I've since upgraded my lighting to AHSupply from screw in CFLs.

I'm very happy with the growth of my rotala, E. Vesuvius, Crinum thaianum "Onion Plant", and my crypts. I'm not too happy about losing the Bolbitis heudelotii and Trident Java Fern, but I'm used to not being able to keep everything happy.

I've got two questions:

What should I do about the string(?) algae that has overcome my moss? Chemicals are not an option with tiger and cherry shrimp in the tank. I was thinking about buying a few Gobies from invertsfactory to see if they'd eat it.

Any suggestions, based on the plants that are currently doing well in my tank what I should fill the now dead and empty spots with? Or should I just wait for what I've got going to fill things in?

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-11-2009, 06:54 PM
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Flourish excel is used by many to get rid of algae. It may come back if you don't correct the imbalance. Moss I take out and spritz with flourish excell. Some have hydro peroxide.

A picture would help detect the imbalance.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-11-2009, 10:43 PM
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The tank is looking really awesome. Keep up the good work! As for plant recommendations, I think a big ozelot sword by your overflow might look good (although most dislike swords around here).
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 07-14-2009, 02:18 AM Thread Starter
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There's a dwarf red lily on the left side of the overflow now. Once it fills in it should fill that open space nicely.

The whole tank seems to have balanced out quite a bit and I'm getting a lot less growth on the algae. I can easily keep it in check now just removing it manually and the 40+ mouths in my pond make short work of any plant matter I need to get rid of.

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Last edited by ezcry4t3d; 10-06-2009 at 05:43 AM. Reason: spelling/grammer
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-28-2009, 02:37 AM Thread Starter
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Short story: Top 90gal drains into bottom 75gal which drains into 70gal sump to hide filtration etc. 235gal total.

December 27, 2009 - up until recently, I've only been posting pictures of the top 90gal tank in this system. Finally I'm ready to show some progress on the bottom 75gal.
90gal top tank - growing well

75gal bottom tank - The terra cotta is temporary, trying to see if my big pleco prefers it to the underside of the driftwood. So far, no interest in the pottery, so it will be moved back out soon.


For the long story, see the firsts post in this thread, it's all there.

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