38 gallon Rock layout Dry start method with old and new ADA AS - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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38 gallon Rock layout Dry start method with old and new ADA AS







You can see clearly where the old sediment is (16 months old) and where the new sediment has been added. I left a layer of old ADA Aqua soil on the bottom 1", then added about 3x this amount on top and sloped up towards the rear.

The vertical height difference is 11 cm.
Tank is 20"H, 24" L: 18" D, 38 Gallon rimless. You can see the filter intake and outflows. Light is 80 micromol 12 ours a day and will be reduced to 70 micromol and 9 hours once flooded.


You can see dramatic differences between the older ADA As and the new. I' had the idea to seed the new with old, looking back, this was a mistake.

I added liquid ferts to the spray bottle, so the front edge is coming back. I also got BGA quickly. I added some EM to the spray bottle and hit it for 4 days to kill it back (entire tank, not just the front).

The difference between the rates of growth and leaf size is very apparent(not so much in the pics here, but a little). I disturbed the front edge some, but it was a mess and I vacuumed up the older soil where there was no rooting. Nothing would grow well there. I figure it will fill in well once the tank gets flooded and run down to the nub where the front and bottom glass meet. Never liked the look of sediment on the front panel and will give a nicer slope look.

The growth rates will equilibrate later once the tank is flooded because I add ferts to the water column and the sediment will leach nutrients everywhere.

I did not predict the ADA AS was that depleted, but.........it really was a huge difference. So I'm doing a pot test later at the lab to see.

You can test and see the differences in nutrient depletion between the old and new ADA AS. Yes, there's still growth at 16 months, but's about 10% of the new ADA.

Anyone wanna buy 30 lbs of old 16month ADA AS from me?


Argghh, I'm a lousy salesman ain't I?

You can do pot test in terrarium settings to isolate the sediment/water column interactions, address the CO2 issue, so that the test is independent of other factors other than sediment fertility.

This way you can compare them and their effectiveness to grow various plant species. It's also easy, cheap, no water changes, CO2 fiddling/assumptions etc, no added light if you place them outdoors etc.

You can sample older sediments vs new, sand, flourite etc
You can also add sprays of foliar nutrients to simulate water column uptake also.

So the test at the lab should help address the question as far as growth weights based on dry mass. I'm not going to do tissue analysis etc. Nothing to involved. And........ I have plenty of old depleted sediment to try and do something with now. Sure ya do not wanna buy some?

Regards,
Tom Barr




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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 10:08 PM
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Very interesting tank. I am interested especially by the method of filtration. I have started a new thread about what my plans are for the next tank set up. I want a drilled bottom filtration tank as well. Maybe you could give me some advice and some tips before I get to work on this project. I can't wait to see how yours comes out. You always amaze, Mr. Barr.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-07-2009, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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I was like many of the tank I did initially about 2 years ago.
They are simply drilled w/ bulk heads. Some fittings to attach a canister filter to, heater in line etc.
That's about it, nothing to it really.

I just do not like lily pipes and the ADa glassware in/out returns, I broke a couple as well, so that was end of that, the metal and plastic version defeat the purpose as well as cleaning them often to have them less noticable.

I prefer surface skimming/sump filters myself, perhaps with post mech filtration. For smaller tanks though, this method works well.

You can see the 180 Gal woodscaping example I did for more details on the plumbing.

I have not changed that tank over to a sump.
I will eventually.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 12:02 AM
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Wow Mr. Barr that looks great!

I like the placement of the rocks too. It feels balanced and looks eye catching. Hmm... 30 pounds of old Aqua Soil ehh. I might be interested in it all for a 50g tank I have been wanting to make. Can you indulge me on the results you recieve after the results are back from your lab! Curious about Where do you work?

Is there a reason for having no AS in the front most part? Sand later on maybe?

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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 12:16 AM
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Nicely done. Although this makes me wonder how much my growth rates would differ in my new tank if I had used new instead of old AS...
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 12:39 AM
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ok Tom.. that looks awesome! How long will it take for the HC to fill in before you flood the tank? I am thinking of setting up my old 29 gallon tank loaded with crypts and anubias. maybe a bonsai tree look with some moss. but starting it out dry for some kind of foreground to grow in first.

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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 01:22 AM Thread Starter
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An old farmer told me to always wait another 2 weeks before harvest.
I think he was 80 proof, but the advice was right.

Same thing here, wait another couple of weeks than you can stand.
Then flood. This is more a Chinese, not a Japanese rock arrangement and layout.

Many mix them up and do not distingush them.

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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thief View Post

Is there a reason for having no AS in the front most part? Sand later on maybe?
I do not like to view sediment, I like to see plants. So the slope is down to the nub there. This gives a better slope effect.

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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-09-2009, 01:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plantbrain View Post
I do not like to view sediment, I like to see plants. So the slope is down to the nub there. This gives a better slope effect.

Regards,
Tom Barr
that is a good idea.. I will have to try that myself.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-10-2009, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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I think if you plant and have that expensive real estate, this type of thing should always be considered.

I do trimming to do this as well cutting the front 1" of foreground plants with a plastic paint scraper, then remove the sediment, and allow the plants to fill in a bit later.

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 11:04 PM
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great scape, Tom! I too have noticed how used AS doesn't grow stuff as well as the new stuff does.

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-27-2009, 04:42 AM Thread Starter
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Filled:



and a closer up:



All started with a single pot of HC.
Let me see you do this without a single water change, zero dosing, zero algae.



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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-27-2009, 04:54 AM
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-27-2009, 12:33 PM
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Very nice Tom. I do want to ask, when you where growing your HC in, how long did you run your lights per day and did you cover your tank with glass or ceran wrap? Also, did you spray your HC with any mixture of ferts?

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 04-27-2009, 11:22 PM Thread Starter
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I just run the lights about 10-12 hours, then 9 once I fill, and the height is about 45cm from the top, the tank has a loose Acrylic lexan top, not sealed but holds most of the water moisture in.

I sprayed once with EM to kill BGA that grew on the old ADA AS that's about 16 months old in there(the bottom part, the bottom 1" is the old stuff, the fresh stuff clearly grew much much better and had zero algae).

If you look at the slope where it comes down, the Hc is much less thick there.........

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