Video Clip Added: Handbuilt 8 Gallon Rimless Tank - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-04-2007, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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Video Clip Added: Handbuilt 8 Gallon Rimless Tank

I just water tested my new toy that I've spent the last two months working on. It will probably be a reef tank but I haven't quite made up my mind just yet. I thought you might like to see some photos of it here.









With the lights on:









Here are the specs thus far:

23"l x 12"w x 8"h - 1/4" glass
~8ish gallons
70 watt 14k Ushio MH - Illuming
2 x 13 watt PC Actinics - AHS

It will probably have an overflow and be plumbed into a 15H sump. It's still only about 70% done as I have a lot of detail work to do. I built the tank, hood, and mounting assembly myself. I'll be posting a build thread on Nano-Reef soon in the diy section, which I might mirror in the DIY forum here, too.

Enjoi,
-Nate


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Last edited by nellis; 07-25-2007 at 04:47 AM. Reason: Video
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-05-2007, 07:22 AM
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You did a good job on that Nate. Especially like the light fitting.

Just one question, why isn't the bottom pane of glass sitting flush with the bottom of the side panels.

It looks as it is raised a little. Make sure you have some support underneath, or you could get a failure in the glass.
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-05-2007, 01:14 PM
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That looks great!
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-05-2007, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Felix- Thanks!

Shake- I honestly appreciate your attentiveness and concern, but I really think the tank is perfectly safe this way. In all my research while building this tank, all of the blueprints/instructions I could find (minus Scolley's Kahuna) have the bottom pane elevated and interior to the sides/front/back.

I'm not exactly certain what engineering details necessitate this design, but I know that If you look under all Perfecto and AGA tanks, they're built the same way... granted they have a brace.

I think the main reason is that if you have the bottom pane lying on the supporting surface, as Scolley does in his DIY sticky, you have very little room for error in terms of keeping your tank perfectly planar. A small surficial curve under the glass can put big torsional pressure on the glass, which I believe is one of glass' main structural weaknesses.

Maybe someone with more experience in this department can jump in and correct me, or provide a better explanation, because I'm a little up in the air on this myself.

-Nate


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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-05-2007, 06:57 PM
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do you have any plans that you wrote up for this that you can share for future rimless tank builders.

Peace,
Ry

I raise my sword in the air in the battle against clado. I have been beaten in this battle but the war is not over. As my wounds heal I amass another army, an army with many legs, an army of Amano's......

I thrust my tridant into the mass of medusa like staghorn. I am wounded but I refuse to take a knee.
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-05-2007, 08:49 PM
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Nellis, very nice tank.

I did same extensive research in this matter as well. Luckily I'm native German and was able to research at the origin of the ADA tanks on procedures for building rimless tanks.

You are correct in placing the side panels against the bottom panel. In my local group we came to the conclusion this would be because of the properties of the silicone.

If placed on the top (of the bottom glass), the hydrostatic force on the seal would be in a shearing motion (trying to rip the seam apart along the horizontal). However, when placed on the outside, it would be in a pushing motion and gain increased surface area, tension and friction to overcome from the bonded strength of the material. I believe silicone has the ability to stretch, but not counteract a horizontal loading.(Credit to gmccreedy)

But elevating the bottom panel you would create the same shearing motion as you would have with placing the side panels on the bottom panel. Also the energy created on the bottom seams is the biggest in the tank, bigger shearing motion. I think the best bet is to not elevate the bottom. One more issue you are creating with this design, all the weight has to be carried by the small sides of your side panels. One small pressure point would cause the glass to chirp very easily. If you look at ADA tanks, those don't have the bottom elevated and ADA recommends to use the garden mat (a must for flat bottom tanks, neoprene being the most suitable for this task). The garden mat will clear up the argument for a cracking bottom as well, you just can't place a rimless tank on a none protected surface.

To overcome torsional pressure mention by you for bigger tanks (I think over 90G) you are not supposed to use a single piece as bottom panel. You are supposed to use multiple pieces and even two layers of glass glued together to allow more motion.

Nate - I don't want to say that your tank will fail. Due to the small size your tank can be completely stable. But somebody else attempting to build a rimless tank should know the issues with a elevated bottom.

Good luck!

Cheers,
Jens


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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 12:32 AM
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pls post diy detail on lighting, here in the diy section. thanks.

ADA 120P x2 Iwagumi ADA 75P, 60Px3, 30Cx3 ADA Mini S solar (LED) Mini M solar Do!aqua Mini M


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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 05:07 PM Thread Starter
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Jens-

Thanks! This is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm still not sure I quite understand, but it's a good launching board for more research.

Marimoball and Ryzilla - Will put up plans sometime soon... been uber busy lately, at work till 3am...


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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-07-2007, 04:01 PM
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You leak tested on your kitchen table?!?
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-07-2007, 08:27 PM
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Very nice, great dimensions for a reef tank, hopefully that small size will save you from any 'elevated bottom' worries. Perhaps you could fit more panes underneath to fill the void, then use a garden mat? Or maybe just some lateral supports to be safe. I've been drawing up plans myself for a low profile nano, just longer than this. This would be a great place for some Tridacnas. I'll be watching at NR for tips on how to do this right, thanks for sharing. Thanks to Jens too for the valuable info.


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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-08-2007, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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thanks Jaidexl. It's precisely size and glass thickness that has me completely worry free. This tank is a tank... figuratively speaking. It's real solid. It was the GARF.org website that really convinced me elevated bottom was the way to go.

"Getting Started

Lay bottom, front, back and side pieces out on a large flat surface.

Cut the 1/4 inch dowels slightly shorter than the length of the bottom. Place the dowels under the bottom piece of glass. It is important that the weight of the aquarium is supported by the front, back and sides. There should never be any support under the bottom glass as this could fracture it."

edtheedge: I tested it initially in the bathtub. When no seams burst I drained it, moved it to the kitchen table and refilled it for the endurance test.


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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-08-2007, 05:42 PM
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Nice!
Looking forward for a 'step by step' post .
Rafo



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We made it !!
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-08-2007, 07:22 PM
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Very Nice setup I would like to see more detail about your lighting setup.

Very interesting way you have designed the tank as well. I was under the impression that the bottom pane of glass was elevated above the plastic rim on all-glass tanks to relieve pressure points. I assume this is the same idea they are tying to explain?

Either way I dont think you will have a problem with such a small setup - It is very neat! Did you drill the glass yourself?
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-10-2007, 01:00 AM
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realy like the set up, any chances of a full description of building,lighting and tank please?
cant wait to see it finished!
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 07-24-2007, 06:35 PM Thread Starter
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No DIY thread yet, but here's an a clip of it in action. When it's set up and done, the pump (quiet one 1200) and will be plumbed outside the tank. Oh, I'm also 90% certain that this tank will indeed be planted instead of salty. I just need to get rid of that 14k bulb so I can get a 6500k or equivalent on there.

The little guy in action.

EDIT: Post number 300!!!


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Last edited by nellis; 07-24-2007 at 06:36 PM. Reason: 300 Posts!
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