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post #31 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-21-2020, 11:44 PM
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If you have Shrimp, I would do smaller more frequent changes. I have stopped losing Shrimp now that I do this.

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post #32 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-22-2020, 12:01 AM
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Looking good - I was wondering about your tanks the other day!

Sorry to hear about your betta's fins, any idea on what set it off and are you treating? And just to check that it's definitely fin rot and not damage or self trimming?

Love the new stock too! I've always wanted to try ricefish but they're pretty much impossible to source in the UK for some reason. Similar issue for horned nerites, but I did find some online the other day and they're much better at algae control than standard nerites imo, and I do miss my old ones, so may have to take the plunge...

The majority of my crypts have been great in sand, but they do get root tabs and liquid ferts. Not sure what's readily available for you, but TNC's range is fab if you do plan to keep the crypts. That said, C Parva has always been the slowest grower for me.

Re: neocaridina, once your plants grow in you might have enough cover for a colony to get going? I get enough shrimplets surviving in my main tank (despite the Badis Badis & Honey Gouramis) that I've still got a decent colony of adults going, but then again, I wouldn't put in anything expensive. Probably not an option with lockdown/circuit breaker just now, but is there a chance of you getting some mixed culls off another hobbyist? The larger the better, both in size and number.

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post #33 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-22-2020, 10:44 AM Thread Starter
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If you have Shrimp, I would do smaller more frequent changes. I have stopped losing Shrimp now that I do this.

Gary
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Originally Posted by Thelongsnail View Post
Looking good - I was wondering about your tanks the other day!

Sorry to hear about your betta's fins, any idea on what set it off and are you treating? And just to check that it's definitely fin rot and not damage or self trimming?

Love the new stock too! I've always wanted to try ricefish but they're pretty much impossible to source in the UK for some reason. Similar issue for horned nerites, but I did find some online the other day and they're much better at algae control than standard nerites imo, and I do miss my old ones, so may have to take the plunge...

The majority of my crypts have been great in sand, but they do get root tabs and liquid ferts. Not sure what's readily available for you, but TNC's range is fab if you do plan to keep the crypts. That said, C Parva has always been the slowest grower for me.

Re: neocaridina, once your plants grow in you might have enough cover for a colony to get going? I get enough shrimplets surviving in my main tank (despite the Badis Badis & Honey Gouramis) that I've still got a decent colony of adults going, but then again, I wouldn't put in anything expensive. Probably not an option with lockdown/circuit breaker just now, but is there a chance of you getting some mixed culls off another hobbyist? The larger the better, both in size and number.
Thank you both, no shrimp in there at the moment and yes with our circuit breaker thing going on now I won't be able to get shrimp at the moment. I might do a quick water change later after I finish with work...

I'm quite glad to be in this hobby especially since ornamental fish are fairly easy to get in Singapore and most of them are super cheap, although to be honest I've never really noticed rice fish in the shops here before (although tbh I probably haven't been paying attention). Are certain ornamental fish difficult to get in Scotland?

@Thelongsnail, the betta has been doing much better since I moved him to the other tank actually. I think it was definitely fin rot, i neglected the tank for one week and when I went to finally change the water I noticed some pretty ragged fins with a little bit of red on the edge. But it has stopped now and his tail seems to be growing back. He has always had a good appetite even with the fin rot though so I think that helps a lot with his healing. Here's a recent picture of him



CO2 Art has yet to ship my order, which i'm a little upset about... but perfectly understandable given the current situation so can't blame them. The stems are suffering a fair bit though and I have been cutting them back quite a bit whenever I spot BGA on them. I have a feeling they might not recover, even after I finally manage to set up CO2. Might have to consider getting a new bunch of stems when my order arrives.
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Last edited by chicken.nublet; 04-22-2020 at 01:49 PM. Reason: .
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post #34 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 02:27 AM
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Glad he's doing better now, he's looking well in the photo! Gorgeous colouration, I love a good dragonscale.

The only places I have to compare to Scotland when it comes to purchasing fish are England and Taiwan, so I couldn't say. The only things that really influence availability of stock in the UK are popularity and a few species being banned as they could become an invasive species if introduced into the wild. Apple snails, most crayfish, and a number of native American species are among this number, but it's hardly limiting on the whole. I think people just aren't as bothered about ricefish and horned nerites here, whereas I saw them a lot for sale in Taipei. I *think* horned nerites are a native species there too, so they're very common. Taiwan is much closer to a lot of the large fish farms too of course, and importation taxes/regulations are different, so there was a much nicer (and cheaper!) selection of bettas for example - bettas I bought over there for ~£2-£10 would sell for £20-£40 over here, and were much better quality than my current one, who was £13 if I remember correctly. Cherry shrimp are a big one too, high quality reds were less than £1 each from my local market, whereas they're £3+ each here (unless bought from a hobbyist).

Sorry to hear about your CO2 and the stems. Do you use it on your larger tank? I'm afraid I've completely forgotten!

Oh and I know I'm a total shill for crypts but some C Wendtii would look great in the back left corner...

Edited to add: Glowlight & dyed fish are also banned over here, but neither are anything I've ever wanted anyway really.

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post #35 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-23-2020, 09:27 AM Thread Starter
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Glad he's doing better now, he's looking well in the photo! Gorgeous colouration, I love a good dragonscale.

The only places I have to compare to Scotland when it comes to purchasing fish are England and Taiwan, so I couldn't say. The only things that really influence availability of stock in the UK are popularity and a few species being banned as they could become an invasive species if introduced into the wild. Apple snails, most crayfish, and a number of native American species are among this number, but it's hardly limiting on the whole. I think people just aren't as bothered about ricefish and horned nerites here, whereas I saw them a lot for sale in Taipei. I *think* horned nerites are a native species there too, so they're very common. Taiwan is much closer to a lot of the large fish farms too of course, and importation taxes/regulations are different, so there was a much nicer (and cheaper!) selection of bettas for example - bettas I bought over there for ~£2-£10 would sell for £20-£40 over here, and were much better quality than my current one, who was £13 if I remember correctly. Cherry shrimp are a big one too, high quality reds were less than £1 each from my local market, whereas they're £3+ each here (unless bought from a hobbyist).

Sorry to hear about your CO2 and the stems. Do you use it on your larger tank? I'm afraid I've completely forgotten!

Oh and I know I'm a total shill for crypts but some C Wendtii would look great in the back left corner...

Edited to add: Glowlight & dyed fish are also banned over here, but neither are anything I've ever wanted anyway really.
Yeah, ornamental fish in Asia are pretty cheap and there's so much variety.

I have some crypts back there but the wood is blocking in. I have been considering reducing the sandy area in the back and planting more crypts there though, I'll get round to it eventually.

No CO2 on the larger tank!
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post #36 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-26-2020, 11:44 AM Thread Starter
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Update! Not much to update on the tank itself to be honest. Anubias, bucephalandra and java fern still doing fine as usual. The stems look absolutely terrible. BUT!



My regulator arrived today! I also managed to get all the rest of my CO2 stuff in, so I went ahead to set it up today.



I'm using the small Neo Diffuser and decided to spend some money on a brand new aluminium cylinder from ISTA. It was a lot easier to set up than I expected. Since it's such a tiny tank, i'm just running at just 4 bubbles every 10 seconds and getting a nice, steady stream of CO2 bubbles with about 30 PSI. I've only had the thing set up for 2 hours and it should shut off fairly soon since I only got the regulator fairly late in the day but that's fine.

I also decided to try a different fertiliser for this tank.



Hopefully with this fertiliser and the CO2 the stems will recover quickly. I'm hoping to see some nice new growth by next week. However I still see blue green algae on some of the plants in the back and I would hate to have to resort to using antibiotics or chemiclean or something so I might just take everything out from the back and replant it all. We'll see!

I also just realised that I forgot to get a check valve... CO2 Art's bubble counter does come with an inbuilt check valve but I think I better get a second one asap.

EDIT: After staring at the tank a bit more, I decided I might be better off pulling out the plants in the back next weekend and starting over... I'm already enquiring with one of the local shops on what's in stock, seems like i'll be able to get what I want so that's nice. In the meantime I seriously hope the BGA doesn't start to take over.
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post #37 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-26-2020, 07:26 PM
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Depending on how bad things are, SOMETIMES it is easier to start over, but if you can give a bit more elbow grease, you can manage to recover.

The CO2 and ferts will help, but add some giant duckweed (Amazon Frogbit) to the tank as well. These are great nutrient sponges and help with outcompeting algae until you get things into balance.

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post #38 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-27-2020, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
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Depending on how bad things are, SOMETIMES it is easier to start over, but if you can give a bit more elbow grease, you can manage to recover.

The CO2 and ferts will help, but add some giant duckweed (Amazon Frogbit) to the tank as well. These are great nutrient sponges and help with outcompeting algae until you get things into balance.

Gary
Mmm unfortunately where i'm from all fish stores have to close their physical stores and only a handful are offering delivery, and even then most only have tissue culture pots available. I didn't even think of getting floaters but I'm not sure I'll be able to get some and in any case, I already ripped out some of the stems that basically lost all their leaves and already looked too far gone. I did find a pretty good store that farms all their stems in their tanks though, so I think instead of ripping up what's left, here's what i'll do this weekend... by then the CO2 would have been running for a week and I'll also be using the new fertiliser so by then we should see some recovery.

I'll remove the wood temporarily so that I can take a good look at the plants in the back. If any stems are covered in algae, I'll trim the affected parts off.
There is some algae on the bucephalandra and anubias, so i'll manually remove as much of it as I can. I'll probably uproot the crypts, but I want to keep them so i'll probably wipe the leaves down and replant them. I'll also want to reduce the sandy area in the back left corner and plant more crypts there since I should be able to get my hands on some crypt spiralis tiger and more crypt parva, so i'll remove the sand and add some aquasoil back there (using the Tropica stuff). Since I uprooted some of the very poorly looking stems, I'll probably get new stems and plant them in the bare spots.

I'm also wondering if I should put the CO2 diffuser somewhere else, maybe in the back closer to the stems since that's where I need them the most. I know you usually put the diffuser directly opposite the outflow but hardly any bubbles are being pushed to the stems.

EDIT: Also observed the following things today... I think I understand why I need a second check valve, I'll probably want to install it closer to the diffuser. When no CO2 is being pushed into the tube, of course water got into the tube and today morning when the CO2 started up again it noticed that it took a really long time for the CO2 to push the water out to get to the diffuser. In the end I only got CO2 bubbles in the tank about half an hour before the lights turned on, which I guess is not ideal. Also, the tube is probably too long (lol). Fortunately the bubble counter has an integrated check valve... and since the solenoid powered on today, doesn't seem like any damage has been caused. I'll get a check valve asap but in the meantime I guess i'll have to remove the diffuser every night when the solenoid powers off.

Last edited by chicken.nublet; 04-27-2020 at 06:45 AM. Reason: .
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post #39 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-27-2020, 10:45 AM
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Sounds like you have a large task on your hand.

Personally I am stubborn so I would opt for Elbow grease.

I am curious as why you are getting back siphon on your diffuser. It may be the length. I do not get that (or ever have) with my current setup. I have a nice Brass Check Valve (Rhinox) that I use. In fact, it is due for replacement. Once a year is a good frequency.

Do not use plastic diffusers, I find that the CO2 will kill them quite quickly. Check out the Rhinox Brass ones.

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post #40 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-27-2020, 11:36 AM Thread Starter
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Sounds like you have a large task on your hand.

Personally I am stubborn so I would opt for Elbow grease.

I am curious as why you are getting back siphon on your diffuser. It may be the length. I do not get that (or ever have) with my current setup. I have a nice Brass Check Valve (Rhinox) that I use. In fact, it is due for replacement. Once a year is a good frequency.

Do not use plastic diffusers, I find that the CO2 will kill them quite quickly. Check out the Rhinox Brass ones.

Gary
Haha, i'm looking forward to it actually.

I'm also not sure why back flow is happening. I do think the tube is too long, but not sure if that would affect back flow?

EDIT: Ok i think the tubing is definitely way too long... it takes a long time for CO2 to start up when the solenoid is on, and one hour after the solenoid turns off I still see CO2 bubbles being dispersed from the diffuser. Looks like the line is so long that there's still quite a bit of CO2 in the tube after the solenoid shuts off. For now, i guess i'll tinker with the timer a bit and see what works but eventually I'll cut the tube and shorten it a little.

Last edited by chicken.nublet; 04-27-2020 at 01:50 PM. Reason: .
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post #41 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-27-2020, 11:56 PM
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What type of Check Valve do you have?

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post #42 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 02:53 AM Thread Starter
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What type of Check Valve do you have?

Gary
https://www.co2art.eu/collections/bu...and-regulators

This is what i'm using, it came with the regulator. No other check valves other than this one, although I think I'll end up getting one.

EDIT: Good news and bad news (mostly bad news)

I can see the start of new growth coming from the stems and they look pretty good. It's not much, but I guess they will reach a decent size in a couple of days.

Now bad news. Earlier today I was fiddling with the CO2 a bit, still trying to get it dialed in, and I think I let too much CO2 into the tank at once, while the lights were still turned off. I removed the tube from the bubble counter to stop the CO2 getting in but I think I was too late, about an hour later after the lights turned on I saw 1 ricefish laying motionless on the sand, gills not moving, no signs of life... so basically I managed to kill one of my fish with too much CO2.

Right now i'm down to just 2 ricefish, 1 gone and body was never found, 1 I found stuck to the filter intake one morning and then 1 more from CO2 poisoning. Everyone else is fine, but I now realise that I really ought to be more careful with the CO2...

Also, BGA is still there, saw a bit of it on the sand earlier today. I've gone ahead to siphon the affected areas... Pretty sure it's the poor plant health which is causing this, so I really hope to get my plants sorted out as soon as possible (ideally this weekend) and hopefully it will go away.

Last edited by chicken.nublet; 04-28-2020 at 06:23 AM. Reason: .
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post #43 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 10:53 AM
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Yes, CO2 at high levels will wipe out any fauna you have in the tank. The plants though, will appreciate it.

Do you have a tank where you can relocate your fauna while you rework the tank? This might be helpful in reducing stress.

You need another check valve. Get a package of Rhinox if you can. Well worth the money.

Gary
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post #44 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 11:29 AM Thread Starter
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Yes, CO2 at high levels will wipe out any fauna you have in the tank. The plants though, will appreciate it.

Do you have a tank where you can relocate your fauna while you rework the tank? This might be helpful in reducing stress.

You need another check valve. Get a package of Rhinox if you can. Well worth the money.

Gary
Yeah, I really hate losing fish... I decided to reduce the bubble rate on the counter for now, seeing as there aren't that many plants in the tank at the moment I probably don't even need that much CO2. I've also changed the timer for now so that CO2 starts only 1 hour before the lights turn on and shuts off 1 and a half hour before the lights turn off. I think I'll see how long it takes for CO2 to get to the diffuser tomorrow and adjust the start times from there. I'll also get round to taking a pH reading tomorow before the lights turn on (should have done this from the start).

I do have another tank actually but I don't think I'll be putting the fish in there, catching them will be a huge pain in the ass. I'll probably put the fish in a big bucket before I tear out stuff.

I ordered a bunch of plants from two shops and one of them will be throwing in a cheapo check valve for free! I think I'll use that for now and then go out and get a better one once we're allowed to go out again lol. For now, can't wait for my plants to get here and also for the weekend to get here so that I actually have time to work on the tank... They will probably get here just in time for the weekend.

Fish wise, I'll probably get some more ricefish to replace the ones I've lost... but since I've been losing the ricefish at a fairly alarming rate, I don't actually know if the ones I currently have will make it till the end of the circuit breaker. Maybe the water I have isn't that great for them or something. If I do lose them, I guess i'll get 1 or 2 more sparkling gourami to make a group of them.

EDIT: I thought i might as well document a few things I observed while using the CO2 Art regulator. Even after the solenoid closes, CO2 bubbles still come out from the diffuser. Might be normal if its just CO2 leftover from the tube but I noticed that I still get bubbles coming from the bubble counter, although at a very slow rate. This continued to happen almost 1 hour after the solenoid shut off.

The solenoid is definitely closing fully. I tested by unplugging the CO2 tubing from the bubble counter (don't want to gas the fish again) and left the needle valve almost completely open. I got a load of bubbles, but the moment the I turn of the power and the solenoid shuts, the bubbles stop almost immediately.

I'm not sure why this is the case but it seems that it takes a really long time for the CO2 to stop at the low rate i'm dosing, but if I leave the needle valve open a bit more, the bubbles stop pretty much immediately when the solenoid closes. At least I know the solenoid isn't faulty or anything... but I guess it means I have to time the solenoid to power off probably 2 hours before the lights switch off. Ah well, I guess i'll get the hang of it eventually.
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Last edited by chicken.nublet; 04-28-2020 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Observations on solenoid
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post #45 of 119 (permalink) Old 04-28-2020, 04:14 PM
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Unless I am just having difficulty finding it, it doesn't look like you have a CO2 drop checker. That'd be really helpful to monitor CO2 levels and dial in your BPS.

As much trouble as it sounds like it's causing I really like this tank and I'm rooting for you! I also selfishly favor Gary's elbow grease sentiment.


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