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post #16 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-20-2020, 02:04 PM Thread Starter
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I ordered a 2kg reuseable co2 bottle on ebay here today, hopefully they can still send such things because due to Covid19 delivery is supposed to be contactless however co2 bottles are regulated for signature and so on - I emailed the vendor to check what he thought about it!

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post #17 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-23-2020, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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So today I got all the co2 goodies in the mail that I believe I need for the install! I plan to hide the bottle about 7 feet away from the tank and run the needed amount of co2 line to the tank from it. I will try to get that set up tomorrow and hope I don't run into any problems (first time setting one up).

I was able to manage getting one of my pipe shelving units hung the other day and then today I hung my light from the bottom board - lookin nice and clean compared to the bulky brackets on the side of the tank!

So tomorrow and the next days I will get the other shelving unit hung next to the tank, install the co2 (at least try haha) - then fabricate a plexiglas backing that can nicely mount my filter in/outflows. I am thinking about going with a frosted background now instead of black - though I may paint a bit of black onto the bits that are in the cave area since the rocks and plants would eliminate seeing the border of black to frosted.





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post #18 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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Hey everyone so I got the co2 system installed and it seems to be working but I have a few concerns about it, I had actually been soaking the diffusor (had it already in the tank) for about 36 hours I think, anyway initially the bubbles seemed large and not so plenty but then I turned up the working pressure from 1.4 or 5 to 1.75 or 1.80 ish. This seemed to help a lot but anyway I dunno if it is still not soooo many bubbles coming from the diffusor! The test still is very blue anyway.. Maybe some of you have input for me? Do I need to reposition the diffusor or get more flow to it to get the bubbles to go in the water better? Or just wait it out a bit? Any idea if I ought to turn up the working pressure to get more flow, could it be a matter of needing more vco2 output in general? Anyway thanks for any advice guys! I'm a total co2 noobie!

The first video shows it at 1.5 bar, the second video at 1.75-80 or so.

https://youtu.be/qcbQD0PEXE0

https://youtu.be/k78fpHyLU48

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post #19 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 06:18 PM
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If you position the diffuser so the stream of bubbles gets pushed around by the filter return it will help alot with diffusion. So you could put it under the return so the bubbles end up in front of it or if your flow is strong enough put the diffuser on the right side wall and the return on the left side wall (or vice versa) and the flow will disrupt, move the co2 bubbles around.

Also the bubble flow isn't that important you have to go by the drop checker and PH drop to see if you have adequate co2.

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post #20 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 07:39 PM
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I echo what @Asteroid is saying. When adding CO2 to my 40 breeder it took some trial and error to see what would flow the bubbles around the tank the best. Just keep and eye on things, try a few spots, and you will find what works!

FWIW, I have positioned diffusers all over the tank in the past- so there is not on perfect answer- just what works for your tank.
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post #21 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 07:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asteroid View Post
If you position the diffuser so the stream of bubbles gets pushed around by the filter return it will help alot with diffusion. So you could put it under the return so the bubbles end up in front of it or if your flow is strong enough put the diffuser on the right side wall and the return on the left side wall (or vice versa) and the flow will disrupt, move the co2 bubbles around.

Also the bubble flow isn't that important you have to go by the drop checker and PH drop to see if you have adequate co2.

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Thanks for the detailed response, I might try to figure something out but I don't think I can just put it on the other side of the tank and get much difference, this JBL E402 filter is a bit on the weak side honestly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grobbins48 View Post
I echo what @Asteroid is saying. When adding CO2 to my 40 breeder it took some trial and error to see what would flow the bubbles around the tank the best. Just keep and eye on things, try a few spots, and you will find what works!

FWIW, I have positioned diffusers all over the tank in the past- so there is not on perfect answer- just what works for your tank.
Yeah, a bit of trial and error is what it will need huh!


Would you all however say that I would eliminate the need to fumble around with the ceramic diffusor by just getting an inline diffusor - then the co2 would be shot out of the filter output, the ideal situation, no?

I have also however been thinking that maybe the tank needs a bit more flow, I might consider getting a current maker or something, not sure yet.

Thanks for the input!

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post #22 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 08:09 PM
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Yes you could always go inline. All methods (inline, intank, reactor) work it's just preference, but there shouldn't be any reason not to have the intank one work especially on a 2-foot tank. For now if you just move the diffuser to the side wall so it ends up in front of the return it should work. The filter should have enough to disrupt the bubbles from the other side if you decide to try that. My tank is 3 feet wide and my Eheim 2213 reaches the other side, not strongly but enough to break up the stream.

I did have a power head in my tank for a while to break up the bubbles, but took it out and I haven't seen any difference.


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post #23 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 08:25 PM Thread Starter
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I am fairly certain the Eheim 2213 is a decent bit more powerful than my JBL E402, anyway I will see about moving it about, however I am thinking maybe just an inline diffusor makes sense because then I have one less thing in the tank... Anyway I will see!

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post #24 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 09:04 PM
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In terms of cave loving bottom fish I would recommend loaches. Bearing in mind they are happier in small groups. Fish like the Yo-Yo loach for eg would love those caves. Having somewhere they know can they can retreat to actually means you see them out more often. They are also fascinating fish. They remind me of dogs always sniffing about.

I have dwarf chain loaches at the moment (Botia sidthimunki) and they are fab in my opinion. Though in your setup they will likely end up in your tubing. When mine were smaller at least one was usually in the fluval outlet which has a 180 bend followed by a 90 degree. They would go in there and 'clean' the inside for me.

But the larger ones like Yo-Yo's and their relatives would be too big for that. BTW they are so called because the markings on their sides looks like Yo Yo. Botia lohachata in formality.

My dwarfs live under the foot of an old wooden arch (other end eaten by the ancistrus). It's concave and has at least two entrances. The ancistrus kept trying to take it over by burrowing under it but she is too big and it would just fall in. I got sick of continually having to rescape because of it. So I took the remains of the other end at stuck it in the gravel to give them a wooden floor. Problem fixed.
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post #25 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 10:01 PM
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I had 3 peacock gudgeons that also seemed to like to explore "cave" structures. I had a coconut shell one would go in and out of frequently. There was also a piece of driftwood that had a small arch shaped bottom. The other 2 were in and out of there a lot.
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post #26 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asteroid View Post
Yes you could always go inline. All methods (inline, intank, reactor) work it's just preference, but there shouldn't be any reason not to have the intank one work especially on a 2-foot tank. For now if you just move the diffuser to the side wall so it ends up in front of the return it should work. The filter should have enough to disrupt the bubbles from the other side if you decide to try that. My tank is 3 feet wide and my Eheim 2213 reaches the other side, not strongly but enough to break up the stream.

I did have a power head in my tank for a while to break up the bubbles, but took it out and I haven't seen any difference.
Well I moved things around and yeah it seems to be enough flow with the diffusor moved to the other side of the tank, however I didn't try it today, I would rather the diffusor be closer to the back wall for visual reasons! I think I will actually be replacing it for an in-line.... seems like a better solution to me for now!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muscleguy View Post
In terms of cave loving bottom fish I would recommend loaches. Bearing in mind they are happier in small groups. Fish like the Yo-Yo loach for eg would love those caves. Having somewhere they know can they can retreat to actually means you see them out more often. They are also fascinating fish. They remind me of dogs always sniffing about.

I have dwarf chain loaches at the moment (Botia sidthimunki) and they are fab in my opinion. Though in your setup they will likely end up in your tubing. When mine were smaller at least one was usually in the fluval outlet which has a 180 bend followed by a 90 degree. They would go in there and 'clean' the inside for me.

But the larger ones like Yo-Yo's and their relatives would be too big for that. BTW they are so called because the markings on their sides looks like Yo Yo. Botia lohachata in formality.

My dwarfs live under the foot of an old wooden arch (other end eaten by the ancistrus). It's concave and has at least two entrances. The ancistrus kept trying to take it over by burrowing under it but she is too big and it would just fall in. I got sick of continually having to rescape because of it. So I took the remains of the other end at stuck it in the gravel to give them a wooden floor. Problem fixed.
Hey! I looked up those dwarf loaches, pretty cool fish - though I'm not so sure if I want to invest in them (really quite expensive). Plus I think I have decided to look at this tank like a "big" nano tank. Basically I am worried they might look a bit too big for the scale of everything in the tank. Though I might have to keep them in mind, might have to look up some videos of them on youtube!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SueD View Post
I had 3 peacock gudgeons that also seemed to like to explore "cave" structures. I had a coconut shell one would go in and out of frequently. There was also a piece of driftwood that had a small arch shaped bottom. The other 2 were in and out of there a lot.
I kept a pair of those fish in my old 35 gallon tank but to be honest I wasn't a huge fan of that fish, maybe they look better really well fed but the colors with that form didn't suite me. But you're very right, a goby like fish would be a great idea but I don't think I will go with one.



So here is another boring co2 video but this shows the new placement with a bit more current (I cleaned out some muck my filter collected, especially in the first tank it was on for 2 weeks that was a kind of dirty plant quarantine / temporary storage tank thing) - also some photos of the plants getting some co2 bubbles! Finally a photo of the tester finally turned a shade of green!

The side of the tank with the diffusor is certainly getting much more bubble build up, I am very curious what this all means for co2 levels throughout the whole tank albeit it quite small tank... maybe the inline diffusor will help this a bit? I am also still considering throwing in another pump/powerhead thing to help circulation a bit... maybe!


Thanks again for all the input everyone!











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post #27 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 09:40 PM
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That looks good from the video. You should get good results that way. Also the less surface agitation you have the gas off you'll have and the quicker the co2 will get up to par. Looks like your surface agitation is minimal. Mine is the same way, in fact even though I don't turn my co2 off at night my drop checker is still light green in the morning. If you don't like the aesthetics of the in-tank you can't certainly go inline. you can also get a glass in-tank to match the drop checker.

If your into the aquascaping part of the hobby your right about scale. Large groups of smaller fish will make the tank look more dramatic and larger.


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post #28 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-25-2020, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for watching and giving input! The drop checker seemed a nice green all day today, so far I have it only turning on when the lights kick on but maybe I will consider to start the co2 a little bit earlier.

I plan to actually get an inline on it tomorrow and see how that is.

I definitely do want things to look in scale and "aquascaped" so I think I will stick with more or less nano style fishes.


I do want to keep it rimless so I need to be careful about jumpers but I think so far my list of ideas are safe for rimless, thus far my ideas are:

-A smaller cory for the bottom: (but still possibly considering a small loach or

Either:

Corydoras xinguensis
Corydoras atropersonatus
or likely:
Corydoras Habrosus (since they are the smallest of these 3)


-A low to mid ground roaming fish:

Dario Dario

^ is the fish I tend to gravitate towards, many say just go for an Apisto pair but I think they will be too large for this tank (scale wise at least). Darios seem promising and supposedly a shop a few hours away from Berlin has confirmed females as well so I could get a small group. Any other ideas here? I know they are picky eaters but otherwise fairly easy (besides male aggression).


-Shoaling/Schooling fish for the mid to high areas:

Boraras brigittae

^ certainly are amazing small fish. I have kept them before as well.

Paracheirodon innesi

^ very common but for good reason I think, also think the blue and red colors would be great for my scape.

*Does anyone have any other ideas for the schooling fish? I still maybe consider the Ember Tetra but I am not so sure about their orange color in this tank. Hard to say what to go with!



Any ideas about stocking would be appreciated! Oh and of course I will get a few amanos for the tank and maybe even some Neocaridinas (depending on what fish I eventually get).

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post #29 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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So I swapped out the diffusor for an inline one and decided to do another video trying to show it. It seems better as far as not having any big bubbles that go straight to the surface streaming out of the filter, seems a bit odd right now that the bubble counter is a lot slowwwwwwer now that the diffusors are swapped. I am curious if the diffusor is the cause then, and how that is explained. Working pressure of the regulator is at about 1.85-.90 or so so I think that is ok, thats barely higher than it was earlier (was tinkering a bit after the swap). Anyway the bubbles are pretty big so maybe that is why so far I think my checker is still green - and honestly it looks like a decent amount of small bubbles are coming out the the filter now. I guess I just don't know where to reference besides the checker being the right color, often times youtuber videos with co2 tanks look like they have tonnnnnnns of bubbles but maybe thats the difference between a green 20mg and a 30mg test.

I am still really stumped on what to stock the tank with! Not gonna be an easy decision! Don't know how to decide haha!


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Last edited by andrewss; 03-26-2020 at 04:08 PM. Reason: video
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post #30 of 137 (permalink) Old 03-26-2020, 05:15 PM
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Besides the drop checker a standard way to measure is the ph drop. So you want to take some tank water and let it degas for a day or so and test the ph. Then test your ph with the co2 running for a few hours into the cycle. Generally your looking for a 1.0 drop. So if your degassed ph is 7.5, your aim should be 6.5. This usually indicates approx. 30 ppm and is a good amount for plants and fish in most setups.

As far as fish, that's really a personal thing. I usually go with what's available locally so I went with Embers. They have been extremely hardy. I haven't lost any since I started the tank, but you have to like orange. I think in most scapes one big school looks better than a variety of fish. I also have some Black Neons, which I really like, but they are actually too big for my tank scale wise.


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Last edited by Asteroid; 03-26-2020 at 08:59 PM. Reason: .
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