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Dr. Who meets Atlantis

7K views 75 replies 13 participants last post by  celticfrog42 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi Planted Tank People! Recent Lurker, New Poster.

I have not kept fish for about 15 years, so I am really starting from ground zero. In the past, I have had 10-gallon, 32-gallon, and occasional betta tanks. I've never had more than a few live plants in my community fish tanks. The main focus has always been fish. This time, I want to focus on the entire eco-system.

I have been keeping a journal and doing online research. The Planted Tank forum has been really helpful, so I am going to share my journal. Despite serious reading up, I have made a few mistakes already. Embarrassing, but I can’t get helpful advice without full disclosure, right? So here I am owning the whole experience online.

So.....my re-entry into the fish-keeping world is an ambitious undertaking to say the least.

My build:
75 gallon standard Aqueon tank
Penn-Plex Cascade 1200 canister filter
60% eco-complete 40% standard black gravel
Resin rocks/wood with my take on a Dr. Who disaster landing (hahaha)
Fluval Aquasky light

I purchased my initial plants online in a kit:

anubias barteri
anacharis
java fern
rosette sword
cryptocoryne wendtii brown

I set my tank up on 10/10/2019. I purchased pure ammonia on 10/12/2019. I checked the label and the manufacturer data sheet online to validate. I was still nervous about using it, so I started with a very small amount--thankfully. Mistake 1. The ammonia formula has some surfactant.

100% water change and lots of cleaning later….

Bottom line here:
Anarcharis melted down completely. The other plants had various shock levels from the initial change in environment followed by the scrub down. The Crypt and Micro Sword seem to be fine. The anubias is struggling though I have hope it might recover. The java ferns have some brown spotting, but remain green. One rosette sword is shooting new leaves. The other has some functional leaves, but no new growth.
I stated dosing with Dr. Tim’s ammonia on 10/17/2019.

On 10/30/19, I added a few more plants:

ludwigia repens
brazilian pennywort
dwarf hairgrass


Things are mostly coming along with bacteria, but like everyone else with a new tank, I struggle with patience. I dumped a bottle of Tetra Safestart Plus in 11/1/2019. I have a daily API testing log. Current tank numbers (11/2/2019):

Ammonia: 3 ppm (roughly between 2-4 ppm)
Nitrite: .25 ppm
Nitrate: 5 ppm
Tank PH is pretty stable at 7.6
Current cycling temperature: 80 degrees

Finally, I ordered some ThriveC and put a half dose in the tank. Not sure if fertilizer is the right move, but the brown leaves on the anubias and java fern with no detectable growth have me worried. There is mixed-messaging on fertilizing during cycling, so we’ll see if this ends up being a mistake or not. It's an art AND a science?!?
 

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#2 ·
Don’t fret too hard, we’ve all made mistakes in this hobby, it’s how we learn and improve!

Personally I’d dose during cycling, sure the plants can get nitrogen, but what of phosphates, potassium, sulfur, and micro nutrients? Being that you aren’t going with the dirted method, I think dosing is a good idea for you.

Any pictures of the tank? The description sounds intriguing.


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#3 ·
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#4 ·


That looks like it’s going to turn out awesome! I had to show my wife because she’s a big time Dr. Who fan lol


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#5 ·
Not too much going on right now. I have some visible new growth on the pennywort even though a few leaves are still melting from the initial planting shock. A little melt, but nothing that looks too crazy for the dwarf hairgrass or ludwigia repens. I don't see new growth yet, but I am not really sure what healthy growth looks like for these two plants.

The oddest thing to me is the ammonia readings.
Date PH Ammonia Nitrite Nitrate
10/25/2019 7.6 5 0.75 2.5
10/26/2019 4 0.5 0
10/27/2019 4 0.5 0
10/28/2019 4 0.25 0
10/29/2019 7.6 4 0.37 0
10/30/2019 4 0.25 0 (50% water change; added plants)
10/31/2019 7.6 3.5 0.13 0
11/1/2019 3.5 0.5 2.5 (Added bottle of Tetra SafeStart Plus)
11/2/2019 7.6 3 0.25 5
11/3/2019 3 0 5

I dosed the tank up to 5ish ppm on 10/25. It has not fallen below 3 (between 2-4 ppm on the API test) since then.

I had a significant plant die-off (anacharis melted and dropped needles), so I have been assuming the ammonia is coming from plant decay. I probably waited way too long before pulling out the melted plants because I hoped it would come back. Can anybody confirm this thinking is logical?

I have had nitrites on and off, but as you can see it rises up to between .5-1 ppm on the API test color chart and then declines. Today, it was 0 again. Not too worried about nitrates. Several of those 0 readings may have been slightly above 0 (slightly orange reading) and I am consistently getting 5 ppm now.

My inclination is to continue being patient and assume there just aren't enough ammonia-consuming bacteria yet. I am open to any insight more experienced keepers may have.
 
#14 ·
I did a fishless (sort of) cycle with my 20L "quarantine" tank my ammonia was stuck at 5 though my nitrites started rising. I did enough of a water change to get it down under 2, my fish showed up the next day, 7 corys, the day after that I was at 0.5, the next day ammonia was at 0.0. I dodged a bullet. Point being you may have better luck cycling if you keep the ammonia around 2. That's what I plan to do when I get my 75 gallon tank started.
 
#6 ·
Given your high amount of ammonia, I’d let it sit until you’re seeing .5-1 ppm of it, along with nitrites and nitrates. If your nitrites are low when this happens, dose more ammonia. If nitrites are high, leave it until nitrites are low as well.

As soon as you can dose say 2 ppm of ammonia and a day later, you have 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite, you should be good to go for fish.

Plant melt in new tanks is perfectly normal, I wouldn’t fret too much.


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#8 ·
Thanks, I will take that advice!

Bump:
I am pretty sure that all you need to do in order to get everything to be perfect is to add a figurine of a small girl sleeping on a suitcase....
I will keep my eyes open for something appropriate. :grin2:
 
#9 · (Edited)
I have baby java ferns!!!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/185347815@N02/49022927158/in/album-72157711647069142

https://www.flickr.com/photos/185347815@N02/49023654972/in/album-72157711647069142/

My original 3 java ferns were struggling with the new tank adjustment. I added some ThriveC last week and just sat back and waited. One of the plants sprouted these brown roots on most of its leaves and is just covered in baby plants. The other 2 plants have settled down a bit and I think they are adjusting fine now.

In other news, the aquarium cycle finally seems to be moving forward. Today's API tests:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/185347815@N02/49023652517/in/album-72157711647069142/

My tank is still generating more ammonia than it processes, but the nitrites and nitrates both have movement, so I am hopeful things are finally moving along. :)
 
#10 ·
Cool, another member from the Old Dominion!

Just a heads up, the flickr links appear to be set to private. Will need to be switched to "public" or something like that (not sure how it will be worded) Also, you can "insert image" with the picture icon on this site and the pics will appear instead of links. Takes some clicking to initially figure out, but your pics will get more views this way. I will sometimes click "Go Advanced/preview post" and tweak things few times until my posts appear the way I want them to, then click submit. Hope this helps, looking forward to seeing more of your tank
 
#11 ·
Thanks, @KayakJimW. You are right, I really don't want to click on image links, so I can't imagine others will either. I haven't posted on a board with image hosting in quite awhile, so I have to do some setup to share in a functional way. I will continue to play with the feature until I can share the pictures within the posts. For now, I have updated the permissions on the photos. :)
 
#13 ·
Currently in the Nitrites Spike phase of the cycle. Ammonia is near zero the last 2 days (between the 0-.25 API color reading) and nitrates is steadily rising. I dosed ammonia to .5 and 1 ppm, respectively to keep the ammonia bacteria alive. Nitrates is up to 40 ppm this morning. We are out for some family fun tonight, so I will do a water change tomorrow morning to dilute the Nitrites/Nitrates. I am hoping the cycle will complete, so we can get fish next weekend. I am like a kid in a candy shop right now, so tamping that excitement down a little.

I am weighing my stocking options now. I have a post in the fish forum where I floated my initial ideas.

Not sure about the cross-posting etiquette at this forum. Do people prefer to link over to other threads or is it better to just post the details inline?

Here is the thread:
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/21-fish/1299805-stocking-newly-cycled-75-gallon-tank.html

And, here are my initial stocking thoughts along with a summary of modifications I am making based on advice offered:

Key Considerations:
My TEEN is actually interested, so I want to incorporate his input. He requested swordtails and kuhli loaches.
I want a community tank with some color.
I have never kept Gouramis and this fish will be the "showcase" fish for this tank.

Initial Stocking Plan:
5 x Cherry Barb (Puntius titteya)
5 x Kuhli Loach (Pangio kuhlii)
3 x Blue Gourami (Trichogaster trichopterus)
10 x Neon Tetra (Paracheirodon innesi)
4 x Panda Cory (Corydoras panda)
1 x Swordtail [Male] (Xiphophorus hellerii)
3 x Swordtail [Female] (Xiphophorus hellerii)
6 x Leopard Danio (Danio rerio)

I do not want to overstock. Using AquaAdvisor to do some validation.

Modifications (based on feedback);
Swap out danios for another to swimmer option due to temperature mismatch. Looking for ideas. Bloodfin Tetras?
Increase neon numbers (12?)
Increase cory numbers (6-8)?
Not fully set on the best gouramis to add, but still like them as centerpiece fish; current plan is 1 male and 2 females, but quantity and mix will change based on the type.

First fish will probably be swordtails and cherry barbs. I am monitoring the swordtail feedback on that thread, but will need to make up my mind soon on that one.

Loach and cory additions are planned down the road. I had hoped the plant carpet might offset the potential substrate issue. I have planned to leave the front of the tank open (free of plants and hardscape) to maximize viewing. Will look into adding some sort of black sand in that area before stocking these fish. My substrate isn't super deep, so rather than remove what I have I may just Move it around to support a good-sized sandy section on the left center part of the tank.

Nothing is set in stone--just enjoying the planning stage for now and gathering information.
 
#15 ·
Happy update today! I have Ammonia near 0 ppm and Nitrite at 0 ppm!!!

The nitrites had been off the charts on Thursday and Friday morning, so I thought I might be headed for a cycle stall. I planned to do a big water change on Friday night to bring down nitrites back on the charts and reduce the nitrates. Unfortunately, we ended up with a boil water order after a city water main broke. I was able to change out 7 gallons yesterday with boiled water. My Nitrites were back on the charts (2 ppm) and the nitrates were about 40 ppm. I dosed ammonia back up to 1 ppm. Imagine my surprise this afternoon to see ammonia and nitrites both at 0 ppm?

Today, we received the water all clear, so I did a 25% water change to bring down nitrates again. Hoping for zero readings for ammonia/nitrite again tomorrow!

Plant Update:
Ludwigia repens appears to be doing well. Loads of new growth. Still not sure about dwarf hairgrass. I adjusted the light above the the hairgrass to see if that makes a difference for it--it is the highest light plant in my aquarium. Pennywort keeps melting at the bottom of the plant, so I am letting those stems float for now. It has some new growth, but the original leaves are not holding up well. Monitoring it to see how it goes.

Attaching some pictures for anyone interested in seeing the plants. Water is a little cloudy right now--pictures were taken right after the water change. Fingers crossed--the nitrogen cycle is almost done!
 

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#16 ·
Update: Cycle is not quite finished. :( Ammonia @2 ppm processes through in 24 hours, but nitrites does not quite hit zero (.25). So, a few more days.

As a side note, the API nitrates readings are really frustrating. Is it 40 or 80 ppm? Nitrates were still really high yesterday despite the water change, so it must have been 80 and not 40. I did a 50% water change again today and took the opportunity to move move the substrate around. I am going to add some sand areas in the front and back to make the tank more friendly to corys and loaches. Making the best of having to wait another week for fish. :)
 
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#17 ·
My black sand arrived today. Great timing--I was hoping to get it in the tank before we stocked any fish. My son helped create a little beach front property for nice viewing. We also scaped some sandy hideouts and filled in some lows spots. Overall, I am really happy with how it looks. The water is a little cloudy, but not too bad.

Since we were working on the tank, we also launched a baby java fern (they grow so fast!) onto a nearby log and planted the anacharis we salvaged from the Great Melt of October 12th, 2019.

Ammonia and nitrites are both at zero. I have a more muted "Yay" this time. I know I could have upset the balance a bit with the 'scaping adventure this evening.

Still hoping we may be ready for fish this weekend. Fingers crossed!
 

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#18 ·
Looking good! One thing I’d like to point out is it appears you have a java fern buried in the second picture. I’d advise you to unbury it and attach it to something, otherwise the whole plant will likely rot away.

I’m loving the black sand, you and your kiddo did a bang up job!


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#19 ·
Thanks, @varanidguy. Feel free to laugh at me, but I planted those based on the enclosed instructions not realizing they were generic for the entire plant kit I purchased rather than aimed at specific plants in the package.

I had been scared to stress them out since they survived the "Great Melt" and are now covered in plantlets. Would it be better to pull them out and let them float, or should I leave them until I find an appropriate hardscape to attach them?

*When I head to the LFS this week to buy fish, I can pick up a log and tie them there.
 
#21 ·
I was hoping today would be the day, but unfortunately, I still have nitrites.

Yesterday, ammonia and nitrites were both zero. I dosed ammonia last night after we finished our rescaping adventure with a pretty good expectation that we'd be good to go for fish on Friday. Today, ammonia is 0, but nitrites is 2. Feeling a bit deflated. The tank has hit 0 on both parameters twice this week, but the next day, the nitrites has a reading. The battle continues tomorrow.

I will free the java ferns tomorrow until I can get an appropriate anchor. Thanks for weighing in @varanidguy.
 
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#22 ·
I was hoping today would be the day, but unfortunately, I still have nitrites.



Yesterday, ammonia and nitrites were both zero. I dosed ammonia last night after we finished our rescaping adventure with a pretty good expectation that we'd be good to go for fish on Friday. Today, ammonia is 0, but nitrites is 2. Feeling a bit deflated. The tank has hit 0 on both parameters twice this week, but the next day, the nitrites has a reading. The battle continues tomorrow.



I will free the java ferns tomorrow until I can get an appropriate anchor. Thanks for weighing in @varanidguy.


Don’t be deflated. The fact that you’re getting 0 ammonia with some nitrites is awesome. The final step of reaching 0 on both is the longest one. You’re almost there!


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#23 ·
Today was my day off. I had hoped it would be fish day, but because the tank cycle continues, I had to find something else today after a seminar this morning. I decided to head over to the local Petsmart/Petcos to find an appropriate log so I can anchor the java ferns floating around the tank.

Good news! I found a beautiful piece of driftwood that should fit into the tank. Perfect size to tie off the larger java ferns and maybe even wrangle a few babies!

However (there is always a "but" right???), it is mopani. I absolutely love it, but I will not love the tea-colored tannins, so.....boiling and waiting to minimize the impact to the extent possible. Java Ferns will need to float awhile longer.

I see a lot of mixed experiences with Mopani in terms how long to soak/tank impacts, etc. I still have charcoal in my filter. Will charcoal really clear up the water? Anything I should know about it before I put it in the tank? I have time...at the very least it will be soaking for awhile. Hahaha.
 
#25 ·
Today was the day! Cycle complete--just in time as we have a pretty packed schedule between now and Thanksgiving weekend.

I have been alternately boiling/soaking my Mopani wood since Friday, so when the tests all came up clear both Saturday and Sunday mornings, I did a little happy dance and managed to fit in tank maintenance, water change, and fish. My teen picked out his swordfish and we found a few other new inhabitants as well. Busy day, but wanted to get the requisite fish pictures before the work week starts. Note: no one really wants to hold still for a picture.

So happy to see these guys cruising around. :grin2:

Our new inhabitants:

3 green swordtails
6 neon tetras
2 peppered corydoras
2 tiger nerites

They are all zooming around exploring. The swords and snails are munching on algae and the corys seem to be thrilled with plant debris. Not planning to feed them until tomorrow, but clearly they aren't going to be bothered.
 

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#27 ·
Thought, yes. Practically speaking, no. I know I need to figure it out. I bought these fish all from the same place and they are inexpensive; however, I am playing with fire.

Will mull it over, research, and come up with something before I introduce new stock to this crew.

Probably need a quarantine tank. Most of my effort and time is sunk in the main tank. Is there a cost effective complete setup out there somewhere? Maybe a 10 gallon tank? I am open to suggestions.
 
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#29 ·
Quick cell phone update: Worked through an unexpected PH crash. Lost some neons as a result, but tank appears stable at the moment.

Received and added the last batch of plants for awhile...time to sit back and let them grow.

The corkscrew vallisneria did not come in great condition--will see how that goes. Buce threw in a few extras with the leopard vallisneria, flame sword, and crptocoryne though...so overall happy with the delivery. In fact, I had a placement decion struggle with so many extra options!

A few fuzzy pics until I have time for a better post.

Also, @varanidguy, I am working on a QT. :)


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#31 ·
No way to comfirm, but I think Mopani wood. I read it may or may not drop PH slightly over time, but given the size of my tank and the amount of time I boiled it, I thought the most it might drop is .2. Since my PH has been stable at 7.6 for weeks, I thought I would be good. It dropped to 6.6 and restablized at 7.6 within 48 hours.

FYI, it has remained at 7.6 sine then.

Other notes:
GH :10
KH: 7

During the crash:
GH: 10
KH: 4

Not really sure how to interpret the changes. I have no plans for new additions for the next few weeks. Will see how it goes.


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#32 ·
Quick update:

I am pretty swamped through Thanksgiving, so no pictures or ultra-detailed update. Bottom line up front, my best guess is the PH crash may have killed off some/most of my beneficial bacteria. I am open to suggestions for other causes, but the end result is:


Ammonia has been climbing (up to 1ppm) for a few days with no Nitrites. I did a water change on Sunday to bring the number down a bit. Nitrates was stable at 10ppm until the water change--it now reads 5ppm. I am using Ammolock to detoxify between water changes. Will continue with water changes and Ammolock as long as necessary.

Thus far, I have not lost any additional fish.

Will update my tank journal when I through the upcoming holiday/work obligations. I am open to any ideas or suggestions. Otherwise, will just try to slog through this problem the best way possible. Fingers crossed the little guys make it through--we are growing pretty attached to their antics.

Also, I have not dosed ThriveC at all since the PH crash. I am afraid to tilt the numbers too far in any direction. Plants appear okay--I still have some making the transition from emersed to submerged.
I am staying on top plant melt and decay to reduce impact on ammonia. Open to thoughts on this thinking too.
 
#33 ·
Another quick update because I am really stumped now. The only thing I have done since I did the water change on Sunday (see previous post) is add Ammolock to detoxify ammonia. My tank temperature is 77.8.

This morning after an entire week of stable PH (7.6), I had another PH crash down to 6.6! Initial parameters:

Ammonia: 1 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
NItrate: 10 ppm
PH: 6.6

I also tested GH/KH once I realized the PH crashed:
KH: 3-4
GH: 11

I have periodically tested my tank GH/KH. The numbers are typically:
KH: 5-6
GH: 10

For reference, my tap water parameters are:
KH: 7
GH: 11


One of my fish has a red gill on her left side and she was racing up and down the side of the tank. Because of the sick fish, I changed out 10 gallons before work this morning. Post water change readings were:

Ammonia: .5 ppm
PH: 7.0

Note: Tank was probably not entirely settled for the new readings--I was rushing around trying to get ready for work...but the ammonia is down some and PH has started to rise again. The last time the PH crashed it rose back up to 7.6 in about 1.5 days on its own.

May or may not be relevant:
Very notable plant growth the last 2 days. The flame swords I planted last week have new submerged leaf growth and my ludwigia repens is visibly taller/lusher in a couple of areas. Really have no idea what is going on with the PH.
 
#35 ·
I had some holiday obligations (including guests), so I was unable to update. it was a challenging week or so with 60% water changes nearly every day to reduce ammonia, then nitrites, but the tank has re-stabilized. Water parameters have been good for a couple of days and the PH has been stable for about a week.

I switched from API to Prime products as a few fish experts indicated some API products sometimes reduced PH.

No confirmed reason for the severity of the crash, but I am glad to be on the other side of it.

Will take some pictures this weekend, but no major visible changes.
 
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#36 ·
Check-in:
Now that my tank appears stable, I am focusing on balancing the entire ecosystem. while I fought to keep my fish safe, I ignored my plants.

I am looking forward to this part of the challenge. Plants are new for me and I have already observed a few problems I would like to solve in my low tech environment. First up, leggy stem plants.

For now, here are a few pictures of the current state including my favorite "sweepers." Really, really love these corys.


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