Matt's newest ADA 60P journal...Iwagumi(ish) - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 04:20 AM Thread Starter
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Matt's newest ADA 60P journal...Iwagumi(ish)

I have been off the board and haven't had an aquarium in about 3 years. My last attempts were trying to do Dutch tanks in a 60p but I feel this tank is too small. More evident, I lack the abilities to bring out the best in each plant. I have always liked nature aquariums better, but I always feel I am missing out on plants. I decided to do a mostly Iwagumi scape and have stems in back.

On to the Iwagumi part. This has always been my favorite style. I feel it is modern and tranquil. It took my awhile to make one I like but I have done several in long tanks like a 20L or a 12L. I feel the lack of depth and height makes a 60P challenging to scape in general, like a 29 gallon. It's doable but hard. Iwagumi is hard for this tank especially, IMO. I wanted to do really large rocks and I like this result. They are just from the rock yard, I will have to test the PH and kh to see if they harden the water. I have kept RCS in very hard water and bread thousands, but acclimation is really challenging. I am thinking RCS and CPD, or Cardinals. The water parameters will sway me.

The substrate...my tank sat empty with Aqua Soil for awhile. When I started an indoor herb garden, I would just use that as my workspace. Then some AQ was used in my garden, some is still in there. I added about 4-5 inches of potting soil, and it's probably too much but we will see. I didn't really intend on that, I just really liked the scape when I was messing with soil and figured I would risk it. Lets see how it goes. It is capped in Petco black sand. I actually prefer the look over AS.

The Specs:

Tank: ADA 60P
Substrate: My own reciepe
Lighting: Current Satellite Pro
Filtration: Ehiem 2215 and 2234 Ecco, using a y after the inflow and a y back to the outflow (because I had one aquarium and two filters)
Stand: Ikea Besta (I am going to make an ADA style stand though for the next tank, it's hard, I live in a condo)

Scape start:
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post #2 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 12:50 PM
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Looks like a great start mate!
As far as ADA stand, use your local hardware store. They can cut all the wood for you and that reduces all the difficulties of building it in my opinion. I've built two ADA looking stands from ply and oak now, they look fantastic and are pretty cheap in the end.
Then again, I know how difficult it can be to do projects in condos/apartments, so I completely respect the annoyance of the situation.
If those stones are reactive, can CPDs be kept in hard high ph water?
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post #3 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-20-2019, 04:06 PM
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Even if the rock impacts parameters, it may not be anything to worry about.

Looks terrific. Rock will be great once the tank is flooded.


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post #4 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-21-2019, 02:53 PM
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I love the hardscape and am interested how the dry start will work out for you.

Just in for information... and planning, a lot of planning
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post #5 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-22-2019, 06:56 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry, I wanted to add pictures in separate posts. All the image hosting sites go down or charge so I am trying to only use attachments.

Here are some pictures of the grow out phase. I do want to make one point. If you are doing the dry start method, be patient, don't really do much but let some new air in and spray. I personally did the DSM method because of the slopes but don't do it if you are in a hurry to fill. First pic is August 23rd, next is September 10, pretty good time but I started on July 23rd, according to my phone.
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post #6 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-22-2019, 07:10 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
Even if the rock impacts parameters, it may not be anything to worry about.

Looks terrific. Rock will be great once the tank is flooded.
Thank you. One reason I did not care about the parameters was really simple. One of my only sources for stone is ADA in SF. They supply the ADA stuff as you likely know. Seiryu and Ohko stone are like $4.99-$6.99 per pound. I bought about 175 lbs for about $6.99. I wasn't committed yet to get back into the hobby so the second seemed like a good choice. The fact I wanted to use such large stones, I don't know if I could reasonably get it locally or by online and be happy. They look similar to another stone I have used, I kept RCS with similar or the same stones, and though acclimation was challenging, I did bread more shrimp that I ever wanted. We will see how it goes but I am confident I can stock it with something I am pleased with, I may just not have certain choices that I would love as an option (like Cardinal Tetras or Green Tetras if I can ever find them).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Janci View Post
I love the hardscape and am interested how the dry start will work out for you.
Thanks, I updated it and actually filled it. I have done DSM a lot and my advice is to let everything take it's time. Especially plants rooting. If you want to get started quickly, I don't think the DSM way accelerates growth, it just makes planting and keeping slopes much easier. I did my first carpet with HC many years ago, it took less time, plus I could enjoy other plants. That tank didn't have much hardscape, so a lack of a carpet didn't bother me. That said, it filled in wonderfully, I trimmed it a few times to get more MC spread out, nothing bad happened. I completely recommend doing it this way for certain reasons but I think most people think it's the only way. Planting HC Cuba is no fun in a filled tank but perfectly doable if you don't want to wait 2-4 months to fill.


Tank is filled now, I will update photos tomorrow. Thanks for the interest.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamo33 View Post
Looks like a great start mate!
As far as ADA stand, use your local hardware store. They can cut all the wood for you and that reduces all the difficulties of building it in my opinion. I've built two ADA looking stands from ply and oak now, they look fantastic and are pretty cheap in the end.
Then again, I know how difficult it can be to do projects in condos/apartments, so I completely respect the annoyance of the situation.
If those stones are reactive, can CPDs be kept in hard high ph water?
I will build the stand when the time is right. Though my local hardware cuts wood, it's not to exact standards. Plus, it is something I would love to just make. I am on the fence about using solid wood or plywood with edge banding, if I stained it, it would almost be black. If I painted it, I would do a Matte Navy (with an airbrush or automotive spray gun). Or a dark grey. Either way, I need a space to do that all. I built my butcher block counter tops inside, among other things, never want to have that type of dust inside again, especially with my recording studio.

I would have to look into CPD's. I won't keep anything that doesn't do well in my parameters. I have to wait it out to test and then start researching. I really only want one type of fish as the "display" so I will find what works when I cross that bridge. It may be awhile as I enjoy the freedom of not having to care about the fish, just the plants, but the fish and shrimp always make it more interesting, just have to wait for the right time and see what will work.

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post #7 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-22-2019, 07:24 AM Thread Starter
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And filled. I have done more since this but it got flooded on Oct 12, about 3 months after. Just over 2 weeks in, everything seems fine, I need to take more pictures but the stems look random right now. I need a few more and one good trim, after I establish they are all doing well.
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post #8 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-22-2019, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talontsiawd View Post
And filled. I have done more since this but it got flooded on Oct 12, about 3 months after. Just over 2 weeks in, everything seems fine, I need to take more pictures but the stems look random right now. I need a few more and one good trim, after I establish they are all doing well.

That water looks extremely hard / milky. Have you done a TDS reading? I've bought these rocks from ADA before and they are trash. I would test your KH/ GH too before you introduce shrimp if you are thinking about it. I had one of these stones in a 5g tank and the TDS was in the 900s with high GH / KH to the point shrimp could not survive. Amanos might be able to pull it, but no neos.

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post #9 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-22-2019, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfshrimp View Post
That water looks extremely hard / milky. Have you done a TDS reading? I've bought these rocks from ADA before and they are trash. I would test your KH/ GH too before you introduce shrimp if you are thinking about it. I had one of these stones in a 5g tank and the TDS was in the 900s with high GH / KH to the point shrimp could not survive. Amanos might be able to pull it, but no neos.
I didn't buy these stones from AFA/ADA, just want to say that. I do know that some Seiryu did make water much harder, some are neutral or close enough. I just want to keep ADA/AFA out of this on my choice of rocks because mine are from a landscaping company, they get their stone from specific sources.

I have not tested my water at all, but my tank isn't ready for anything but plants. I probably won't even think about adding anything for 3 weeks to 2 months, and I will then see what I can keep. Trust me, if my ph is 11 and my kh is off the charts, I am not trying to keep anything that can't handle that.
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post #10 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-28-2019, 04:05 AM Thread Starter
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Not a big update, but I do need to start some RAOK shipments. I just threw away a golf ball sized amount of Monte Carlo. I only was able to get to trimming 1/4 the tank at most. Anyway, message me if you are interested, I also bought some Dwarf Hairgrass that I thought was Belem so that is way too tall for this tank, given I have stems. I just don't want these going in the trash, again, hit me if you are interested in my next trim and I will figure out a system to distribute, I just hate tossing more MC than I started the tank with.

As for progress, it is pretty steady. I am home a lot so I will put my light on full, not to realize I left it on, and still not getting algae issues. I added red plants and they did well at first, then got orange. I have always had problems growing red plants, I don't think it is lighting, I have a theory if you are more on the margin of the plants running out of ferts, they color better. But, I know Tom Barr grows way better plants than I do.

That said, my concern right now is algae control. So far, it's been pretty good, I get a little algae on the rocks when I am at 100% but on it's normal pattern (55 out of 100), I get good growth, almost no algae, and it is seeming manageable, I expected worse.

Design wise, I am iffy. I like the idea of stems in the back for color but it doesn't fit the natural scape like I want. I haven't done a single trim so I am not saying it is the wrong direction, I just don't love the look right now. I added R. Hra, HM, R. Green, and what was sold as R. Macrandra sp. mini butterfly. It's from ADA, I am sure it is probably the proper name but I am not trying to get rare plants, I just thought it would be a good indicator if it is similar to Rotala Macrandra in care. If my Macrandra is doing well on older tanks, all my plants are doing well.

Anyway, it's here now, I am curious where it will go with more stems but especially more trimming.
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post #11 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-28-2019, 11:46 PM
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The hardscape is just great in this tank. Looks really great now that you've flooded.

It's one of those scapes that will work well with all kinds of planting styles.


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post #12 of 26 (permalink) Old 10-29-2019, 04:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
The hardscape is just great in this tank. Looks really great now that you've flooded.

It's one of those scapes that will work well with all kinds of planting styles.
Thank you. The two scapes that inspired me were really different, but I hope I can capture an element. One was an Amano tank, I wish I could find the picture I saw at the aquarium store but it was an orange, small leaf plant, likely a Rotala species but maybe Ludwigia or something else. The other was a member, he did a low cost lava rock Iwagumi with HC an HM growing around the rocks.

Part of me wants to go really traditional, and use DHG and maybe some Blyxa and Hydrocotyle tripartita if room. The stems are helpful as I can see my ferts are off, I got some curling in the leaves and the color is not vibrant. The end style is to be determined but I do this this is a helpful reboot. It has been around 3 years without a tank, but really like 5-6 years for a tank with a lot of passion, not just low maintenance, because I have room, type of tanks.

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post #13 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 05:58 AM
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The Rotala Bonsai is a nice small leave stem plant that might do well in this type of scape.

Just in for information... and planning, a lot of planning
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post #14 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janci View Post
The Rotala Bonsai is a nice small leave stem plant that might do well in this type of scape.
That is a really nice plant. I have added more stems and I can't really decide how many speices I want. As I add red plants, I enjoy my tank more, but also feel it is less Iwagumi. I am trying to figure out where my balance is. If I was going to do it more traditionally, and do stems in the back, I would do Bonsai, HM, R. Green with R. Hra or the R. Macrandra "Mini Butterfly" (which is kind of similar to R. Bonsai but dark red, though it isn't doing great in this tank right now with color). Or, maybe the opposite with R. wallichii and some green plant as an accent.

At this point, I don't plan to have a singular accent plant. I figure it is better to try colors now, and go the other way back if I don't like it, to kind of show me how well my plants are growing (I use my reds as indicators of a few things), then go traditional if I don't like.


That said, my tank is doing OK, I am at home a lot lately so I am always turning my tank on to take a look, then leaving it on for longer than I meant to. I also was dosing completely wrong as I thought I had memorized EI dosing. Some of the Monte Carlo died hard, some did not. I am sure I will post pictures in the next few days but it is not going well, not bad. I think I have to revisit my basic knowledge as I am finding I have been doing some minor stuff wrong.

I also want to figure out a way to do a 2 photoperiod per day tank. I am hesitant to put the lights and timer on a second timer until I know there isn't any long term issues. Instead, I may do a light controller as I have all the basic hardware I need from a programming class, but programming definitely confuses me.
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post #15 of 26 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 04:23 AM Thread Starter
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My 11/11 update. Thing have been going decently. My MC died back hard at the bottom of the tank, but is mostly fine in the higher regions. I added more plants, color is not optimal. That said, I have had a terrible flu, and been home, having the light turned up and long photoperiods out of immense boredom. I could see huge changes in my R. Macrandra "Mini Butterfly", not that it was amazing, but good, then it is going yellow again. I also have very little color in my R. HRA, and noticed the stems had turned black half way up the plant, and they detached on their own, or were really easy to do so by hand.

I remembered having the exact same problem, which I asked about on here. It was interesting rereading my thread. I found some issues with my dosing, but that made me evaluate my old tanks, and when things really worked, and when it didn't. I have never had a particularly hard to deal with low tech tank. That may sound simple, it is kind of the point, but I have grown amazing reds, pinks, purples, and even lush carpets in low tech. These were smaller tanks, but probably legitimately high light, just with shorter photoperiods. Growth was really slow, but vibrant. It also got me thinking about what I did on my best tanks, one being a split photoperiod. It was initially DIY CO2, then pressurized, but I kept it at the same level at the drop checker, until people really started pushing the limits of PPM and oxygenation. I feel every since then, I have been running the highest CO2 possible, and often not getting the results, with a lot of work, where a mistake or a bit of neglect becomes a big issue quickly.

That said, I am trying to run a solid green on my drop checker. I don't care what PPM that is, I just don't want to be on the ragged edge of high tech. I will just adjust the lighting. In my mind, this always made sense, but you see these amazing tanks with 40-65ppm with crazy flow and you think that is the only way.

Second, I am doing a split photoperiod. That worked on some of my favorite tanks. I also did it because I was in school and home a lot, in my undergrad, and always turning the lights on after my photoperiod. Now, I am somehow going back for my MBA, kind of the same place, home a lot, turning my lights on, and I need to make sure I see the tank enough, while not fiddling because then I cannot draw conclusions to problems. Even when I am patient, this seems to work better.

So, we will see what those changes do, today I finally had enough energy to set it up. I added a few plants, and made some separators, which I will have to see if I keep, but work pretty well so far. I am not going to win any photography contests with my pictures. You can clearly see the Monte Carlo die off compared to last pics.
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