The Breeding Project: Dark Rams - Page 3 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #31 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 04:52 AM
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Wait what? lol


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post #32 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-11-2019, 02:38 AM Thread Starter
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Its official, they are fine after 8 days in a bag.
Crazy-- who would have thunk it...

Something interesting: the juvenile discus are scared of the rams. What???
Ever since put the dark rams in with them they are all 3 huddled in corner and not eating. I haven't seen the rams charge them or anything; but they are so timid in same tank with them. This is not good, these babies need to get all the nutrition that can right now so not eating is unacceptable. So, made an executive decision that I would not recommend to anyone else... I put the juvenile discus in with the alenquer adults after being exposed to the rams.

Ahhh... could of been a disaster, but no bacterial explosion, fortunately. Always worry about that cross-contamination of foreign bacteria-- but after 48 hours that risk has past. Even more interesting to me, the adults are being very nice to the babies. Not being there typical-- "Im bigger than you so I am going to beat you up" cichlid-selves. LOL!

So now the dark rams are in a 30 gallon all by themselves. Hopefully in time will get some off-spring.
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post #33 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-11-2019, 02:43 PM
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Do you think they could grow more comfortable with the Rams over time? Or is it just not worth the effort because Discus are so... complex?


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Last edited by somewhatshocked; 10-11-2019 at 07:31 PM. Reason: edit - typo
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post #34 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-11-2019, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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Do you think the could grow more comfortable with the Rams over time? Or is it just not worth the effort because Discus are so... complex?
Its possible that they could have become used to them, but---

Because juvenile discus have such a weak immune system, any stress can open their system up to bacterial or internal protozoan issues in the aquarium. These guys are around 3- 3.5 inches. Their immune systems are still almost nil.

Also, juveniles at this size need to eat 3-5 small feedings daily to get adequate nutrition. They hadn't ate in 2 days.


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post #35 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 12:55 AM Thread Starter
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5 days later-- doing great! (thumbs up!)

Updated video:



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post #36 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 02:02 AM
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I'm amazed they lived 8 days in a bag. Still curious to know how they were bagged, how much water/air any additives ect...
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post #37 of 49 (permalink) Old 10-15-2019, 02:07 AM Thread Starter
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I'm amazed they lived 8 days in a bag. Still curious to know how they were bagged, how much water/air any additives ect...
They were packaged in breather bags, paper surrounding this to not shift in box, and insulated box.

Packaged well.
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post #38 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 01:48 AM Thread Starter
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Update: These guys are doing excellent. I haven't noticed any breeding behaviors, but they sure enjoy each others company. They are pretty pampered in being the only fish in a 30 gallon tank. Like always they are very difficult to capture. I did my best.
These cichlids are very aggressive for their size. Im not used to really aggressive cichlids, but for their size these Rams are pretty intimidating to other fish. I forgot I had a BN pleco in here when I took the juvenile discus out because they were so wary of the Rams. I remembered when I noticed the rams had him cornered just under the waterline by the filter inlet. I mean they were picking at his tail. So weird.

I am also working on cleaning up the tank, rescaping, and adding other plants. It was just getting to messy to me. Ordered some mosses from Jake to make a moss tree. Ordered a few other plants, but it will be kept pretty clean looking. Will be adding new filter inlets and outlets and a smaller, "prettier" heater. But, it has some more cleaning up left to go.

Should I put a black background on here? Im afraid if I did Ill never be able to get a shot of these fish again ( mediocre as they are)--- they are so dark. anyways, some pics:







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post #39 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 02:06 AM
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First off, they are beautiful and kudos for doing such a good job with them. I like the way the tank is configured as is, I suspect you are correct that a black background would wash them out too much. Perhaps a frosted background? It could add a touch of elegance without making the fish too unnoticeable. Regarding your experience with aggression, that is strange. In my experience, mikrogeophagus ramirezi only had aggressive behavior within conspecifics, the rams I've kept have always left other fish alone unless they were breeding, and even then their aggression was contained to a small area around the nesting site. But I've only kept German blues and golds...maybe different color genes bring out more aggressive behavior? I've personally observed this in kingsnakes...albino California kings have always been like bats out of hell for me, whereas their "normal" colored counterparts were mellow yellow.

Maybe adding some dithers will calm them down? Some kind of tetra or rasbora? Or you could keep them as a solitary pair as is, they seem to be doing great that way.

Either way, very nice fish and I love the aquascape! Plants would really tie it all together. ;-)
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post #40 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 02:26 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for your insights @varanidguy.
Ive had many different South American cichlids over the years and Ive never seen any consistently harass fish outside species.
I have seen my geophagus nose corydoras out of the way, quickly change direction- just to get them out of their way. I have seen them also do quick bursts of dominance at other cichlids--like against my biotodoma cupidos-- but very quickly. Its a quick movement that means "back off" and is over as soon as it starts. It is never a sustained harassment.
All my cichlids have been oblivious of schoolers.
This is discus, apistogramma, Altums Angels, Scalare Angels, Blue and Bolivian rams, Biotodoma Cupidos and wavarinni, and geophagus.
Now, Central American and African cichlids- that's a different story. They can express cross-species aggression. But, I havent kept them.

I am wondering if this is the breed? There isnt much out there on them, but I need to do some research. I actually will contact the breeder and see what he has to say about them.

This is a breeder/quarantine tank so its never going to be stunning- lol! Its also pretty old. But, it is in my living room an I dont want to be embarrassed when people come over for the holidays. Someday ill have a fish room where I can keep a "proper" ugly breeder tank.
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post #41 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 12:08 PM
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Amy it looks amazing.
My difficulty was always having 'ugly' breeder tanks. Which is far from this.
While I have no experience with rams, I think I'm breeding tanks you should make it as easy on yourself as possible with cleanings. After all, fish love breeding in very clean water, so if you can clean everything without disturbing the tank too much, that is key (in my eyes).
Anyway, I am so excited for your progress here. It looks amazing and I cant wait until you start seeing some activity.
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post #42 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 12:12 PM
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Rams apparently need some special considerations to get them breeding. Here is a video from Dean who works with aquarium co-op.

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post #43 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-07-2019, 06:11 PM Thread Starter
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Rams apparently need some special considerations to get them breeding. Here is a video from Dean who works with aquarium co-op.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhnlqnOo440
Funny, I saw Dean Tweedle at my Sacramento Aquarium society meeting a couple months ago. He was there talking about his trip to collect fish in the Amazon.
Thanks for the video. Very helpful.
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post #44 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 09:44 PM
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Love the slight bits of sparkly blue on their faces.

Haven't kept Rams in more than a decade, so it's interesting to follow along. These unique little fish look great.
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post #45 of 49 (permalink) Old 11-08-2019, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
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Love the slight bits of sparkly blue on their faces.

Haven't kept Rams in more than a decade, so it's interesting to follow along. These unique little fish look great.
Well, we will just have to fix that. If they have some babies Ill send some your way. Just dont put even a snail in with them that you care about because they are honery little buggers.

They are so happy now that the bit of plants are in tank, exploring everything new. They appear very curious and intelligent.


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