The Breeding Project: Dark Rams - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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Rams finally came today, 8 days after being shipped-- still alive. But, very, very stressed.
Im shocked still alive...


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post #17 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 08:12 PM
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Oof. Fingers crossed for ya, Amy. If anybody can get them to live, you can.
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Nothing good happens fast in an ecosystem.
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post #18 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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Oof. Fingers crossed for ya, Amy. If anybody can get them to live, you can.
Thank you.

I can see that 86 degree water starting to liven them up. They are swimming around a bit, exploring their surroundings.
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post #19 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 08:50 PM
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Thank you.

I can see that 86 degree water starting to liven them up. They are swimming around a bit, exploring their surroundings.


Thatís a relief!! 8 days is quite a long time. Iím sure if anyone can bring them back to health itís you!


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post #20 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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Thatís a relief!! 8 days is quite a long time. Iím sure if anyone can bring them back to health itís you!


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Thank you!

The vendor had packed them well- so it really helped.
But, warm water, no light on tank, and some liquid vitamins in water column ( maybe some blood-worms this evening) is the plan for next 24 hours.


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post #21 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 09:13 PM
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Great news! Glad they made it there alive.
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post #22 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Great news! Glad they made it there alive.
Really baffling to me- I never thought fish could live in a bag that long!

When I got them I didnt even temp acclimate them- scooped them out of that nasty water and dropped them in the tank.


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post #23 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 11:37 PM
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Bold move, Cotton! I would have done the same.
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post #24 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 05:10 AM Thread Starter
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They both ate a bit earlier... so far so good.
Did a quick look with light on and super quick videos with 2 different spectrum's of light overhead. It is very difficult to see how gorgeous these two fish are except in person. Despite being in a bag in a box for the last 8 days.





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post #25 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 06:16 AM
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So glad these guys made it to you alive, at least. I know you'll be able to give them the best chance at getting healthier and stronger.
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post #26 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 01:09 PM
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Despite being in a bag in a box for the last 8 days.
About how much water volume was in the bags and were there any filter pads or anything?
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post #27 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-09-2019, 09:43 PM
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I'm glad the fish finally came in ok. I was just looking around trying to find some Coryadoras Habrosus as none of my LFS carry them. I've never had to order fish shipped. It'll be a learning experience.


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post #28 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 03:08 AM
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Look pretty darn good to me considering 8 days in a bag, better then i looked after 6-8months in a sewer pipe capped at both ends.
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post #29 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 03:23 AM
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Look pretty darn good to me considering 8 days in a bag, better then i looked after 6-8months in a sewer pipe capped at both ends.


Wait what? lol


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post #30 of 145 (permalink) Old 10-10-2019, 04:11 AM
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These fish are lost in USPS no -mans land. Heart-broken as they should have been to me 3 days ago. Not worried that the vendor wont make good at this point ( I am getting assurances it will be made good) I am just sick that such a beautiful pair of fish are suffering or dead.

This is why I don't like to use vendors that ship USPS with fish.

This is the 3rd time that this has happened to me in 5 years when I have used vendors that used USPS shipping. Each time I protest that USPS shipping is not my thing and am willing to pay for overnight shipping and each time I am assured that USPS is "almost always" a flawless shipping experience. [I have paid for overnight shipping at least a dozen if not more-times from a handful of reputable vendors and the experience is always, indeed, flawless]. This time, however, I bid for these fish on Aquabid ( a pretty penny at that) and the shipping was predetermined in bid. I felt nervous about it but swallowed this nervousness because this vendor has shipped thousands of fish.

I have ordered USPS shipping of fish 5 times- 3 times of those 5 times were a problem.

Again, I feel so sick about these fish.
I ordered some angels off Aquabid and had the exact same problem: USPS 2-day priority turned into 4 days--and during 100į+ weather. But they too were packed well and arrived in perfect condition. I'm assuming they use oxygen and something in the water to neutralize ammonia?

So glad yours finally arrived alive and you're nursing them to health--they look gorgeous!

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I wonder if that's not a matter of more than simple recessive genes, then? If crossing two visual animals with the same simple recessive gene (or set of genes), you'd expect all offspring to resemble the parents. I bred corn snake mutations for a couple of decades and got pretty familiar with genetics on that scale -think back to the punnet squares from science class. My immediate thought is that the yellow (typical) rams are co-dominant themselves, or else the black individuals will show dark color even if only carrying the gene.
For example:
BB (true dark ram)
Bb (visually a dark ram, but only carries one allele)
bb (normal ram)
But in that supposition, you'd still expect all dark fry from a spawn of 2 dark individuals. This thread has taken me down a rabbit hole. Just read a 66 page topic on another forum with people discussing their breeding trials. Seems some folks are experiencing 100% black fry. Which would lead me back toward thinking it's a recessive gene with a visual heterozygous form. At any rate, I hope these make it and we get to learn more!
Are the genetics for rams as well characterized as they are for angels due to the work of Joanne Norton? If so, would black rams be analogous to double dark angels that have two copies of the dark gene--so they are slower growing, less vigorous, and have smaller spawns than other strains? But that wouldn't account for the mixed spawns some are seeing. There's a newer Black Velvet angel hybrid with more complex genetics (I'd have to look it up again) that are phenotypically almost as black as double darks, but much more vigorous. In fact, mine are quickly outstripping their gold blushing siblings. Must be hybrid vigor. One wonders if they could do the same with these rams?
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