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post #31 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 04:58 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the quick reply. I started a separate on remineralization and it got a bit heated. I honestly thought I would be told to buy a product like Seachem or other to dose but then the conversation went to adding individual elements separately. Great knowledge, but still scared me that it would cause such heated debate and make me think it is not as simple as I thought it would be.




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Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Reef View Post
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If my source water was liquid rocks as yours is said to be, I'd use the RO/DI unit. I have two vats, one for pure RO/DI and one for remineralized water. The learning curve for remineralization is not steep. If you have a GH/KH test kit (and ideally a TDS pen), you're set. And the time to learn your way around it is before adding livestock, so no better time than the present. I'm envious of this tank and it isn't even set up yet!
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post #32 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 05:07 PM
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I suggested Equilibrium or Salty Shrimp in that thread for simplicity's sake. You can (and more cheaply) use Potassium Carbonate and such if you wish, just offering an alternative that's ready mixed in one bottle on your LFS shelf.
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post #33 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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If my plans currently are to have a "generic" planted tank, is there a reason to not buy off the shelf? I'm fine with mixing my own down the road but not quite ready for that even with it being simple as stated.

Thanks!


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Originally Posted by Blue Ridge Reef View Post
I suggested Equilibrium or Salty Shrimp in that thread for simplicity's sake. You can (and more cheaply) use Potassium Carbonate and such if you wish, just offering an alternative that's ready mixed in one bottle on your LFS shelf.
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post #34 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 05:47 PM
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You got good advice in that thread in spite of it going a bit sideways. The biggest reason I can think of to roll your own right out of the gate would be cost, but it's not truly expensive either way. I suspect you will, like most of us eventually move over to dry ferts and buffers because it gives you more control and many of us drawn to this hobby are probably testers and tinkerers by nature.
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post #35 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller View Post
If my plans currently are to have a "generic" planted tank, is there a reason to not buy off the shelf? I'm fine with mixing my own down the road but not quite ready for that even with it being simple as stated.

Thanks!
I'm sorry your other thread went to the crapper!

I figured maybe I could help and hopefully make this easier.

Choosing the RODI option changes the game a little for off the shelf.
This can still be easy.
Equilibrium is $12 for 600g & NilocG GH Booster is $6 for 454g

To remineralize 200G to 6dGH w/NilocG will require 260g excluding sump.
Future 50G WC's would require 65g.
Using Equilibrium is about the same weight but higher cost.

KH could use K2CO3 or KHCO3, pick your poison, about $12.50 on the Bay.
Using K2CO3 for 1dKH in 200G is 18.6g & a 50G WC would need 4.6g
Using KHCO3 for 1dKH in 200G would be 27g @ higher cost.

You will need fertilizer too.
NilocG has a DIY EI Liquid Fert $22 with two dosing bottles.
Pre-measured packets for the 500ml bottles.
1500ml for both macro & micro.

The dosing is labeled as 5ml per 20 gallons 3x per week.
This will be a low tech tank correct, the savings gets bigger.
50ml dose once per week, 1500ml lasts 30 weeks @ 7.5ppm NO3
25ml dose once per week, 1500ml lasts 60 weeks @ .25ppm Fe

You will need to weigh the remineralizing compounds.
Zorfox's Planted Tank Calculator was used for these examples.

Deep pockets to do this with Seachem products.

Hope this post makes things seem easier.


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post #36 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Forgive me if I am coming off like training a rock, but....

Are you saying to remineralize I could/should pick on of these two to dose to my RODI water; K2CO3 or KHCO3? Once I decide which of these to use then it's just a matter of choosing a fert to dose alongside whichever I choose? If this is the case then it did just get a lot simpler!


Using KHCO3 for 1dKH in 200G would be 27g @ higher cost.



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Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post
I'm sorry your other thread went to the crapper!

I figured maybe I could help and hopefully make this easier.

Choosing the RODI option changes the game a little for off the shelf.
This can still be easy.
Equilibrium is $12 for 600g & NilocG GH Booster is $6 for 454g

To remineralize 200G to 6dGH w/NilocG will require 260g excluding sump.
Future 50G WC's would require 65g.
Using Equilibrium is about the same weight but higher cost.

KH could use K2CO3 or KHCO3, pick your poison, about $12.50 on the Bay.
Using K2CO3 for 1dKH in 200G is 18.6g & a 50G WC would need 4.6g
Using KHCO3 for 1dKH in 200G would be 27g @ higher cost.

You will need fertilizer too.
NilocG has a DIY EI Liquid Fert $22 with two dosing bottles.
Pre-measured packets for the 500ml bottles.
1500ml for both macro & micro.

The dosing is labeled as 5ml per 20 gallons 3x per week.
This will be a low tech tank correct, the savings gets bigger.
50ml dose once per week, 1500ml lasts 30 weeks @ 7.5ppm NO3
25ml dose once per week, 1500ml lasts 60 weeks @ .25ppm Fe

You will need to weigh the remineralizing compounds.
Zorfox's Planted Tank Calculator was used for these examples.

Deep pockets to do this with Seachem products.

Hope this post makes things seem easier.
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post #37 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-06-2019, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller View Post
Forgive me if I am coming off like training a rock, but....

Are you saying to remineralize I could/should pick on of these two to dose to my RODI water; K2CO3 or KHCO3? Once I decide which of these to use then it's just a matter of choosing a fert to dose alongside whichever I choose? If this is the case then it did just get a lot simpler!

Using KHCO3 for 1dKH in 200G would be 27g @ higher cost.
I'm good @ rock training!

You will need to pick one of the two, yes.
Remineralizing will also include GH Booster.
This way both GH & KH are covered with the use of two components.

As to ferts I suggested an offering from Colin.
DIY EI Liquid Fertilizer| Premium Aquarium Fertilizer | NilocG Aquatics

In the end 3 items from Colin and 1 from the Bay.

Will you be using CO2 in this 200G tank???
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post #38 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller View Post
If my plans currently are to have a "generic" planted tank, is there a reason to not buy off the shelf? I'm fine with mixing my own down the road but not quite ready for that even with it being simple as stated.

Thanks!
Miller,

Since you're coming from a reef background you've got all the knowledge and experience you need to easily reconstitute your RO to whatever concentrations you want. Many different companies supply raw Calcium Chloride, Potassium Sulfate, and Magnesium Sulfate. All you really need to do is figure out what base concentrations you want and then go from there. High tech plant tanks are the SPS systems of the freshwater world. If you approach it from that point of view you're 90% of the way there.

I'd highly suggest only adding Ca, Mg, and K to your water change reservoir as adding other materials can cause unwanted microbial growth. Adding N, P, Fe, and traces directly to the tank will give you the option to customize for your system, which at your scale is going to be important. A quality pre-made nutrient solution can be a good option too; especially if you have an auto doser in your toolbox.
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post #39 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I will be using CO2 since I already have the equipment from my calcium reactor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post
I'm good @ rock training!

You will need to pick one of the two, yes.
Remineralizing will also include GH Booster.
This way both GH & KH are covered with the use of two components.

As to ferts I suggested an offering from Colin.
DIY EI Liquid Fertilizer| Premium Aquarium Fertilizer | NilocG Aquatics

In the end 3 items from Colin and 1 from the Bay.

Will you be using CO2 in this 200G tank???
Bump: Thank you. I definitely can dose those elements. I do have a doser so all you've mentioned is doable out the gate. Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by Phil Edwards View Post
Miller,

Since you're coming from a reef background you've got all the knowledge and experience you need to easily reconstitute your RO to whatever concentrations you want. Many different companies supply raw Calcium Chloride, Potassium Sulfate, and Magnesium Sulfate. All you really need to do is figure out what base concentrations you want and then go from there. High tech plant tanks are the SPS systems of the freshwater world. If you approach it from that point of view you're 90% of the way there.

I'd highly suggest only adding Ca, Mg, and K to your water change reservoir as adding other materials can cause unwanted microbial growth. Adding N, P, Fe, and traces directly to the tank will give you the option to customize for your system, which at your scale is going to be important. A quality pre-made nutrient solution can be a good option too; especially if you have an auto doser in your toolbox.
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post #40 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maryland Guppy View Post
KH could use K2CO3 or KHCO3, pick your poison, about $12.50 on the Bay.
Using K2CO3 for 1dKH in 200G is 18.6g & a 50G WC would need 4.6g
Using KHCO3 for 1dKH in 200G would be 27g @ higher cost.
https://www.amazon.com/Potassium-Bic...grocery&sr=1-7

$54.95 for 10lbs.

Cost per 50G water change $0.32.

https://www.amazon.com/Potassium-Car...grocery&sr=8-2

$40.00 for 10lbs

Cost Per 50G water change $0.04

Pretty big difference in cost but both are relatively inexpensive.

@Miller to remineralize not fertilize you just need one of these + Epsom Salt(Mg Sulfate) + Calcium Sulfate.
To fertilize you will need Macros and Micros but those should be dosed directly into the tank(you can make up separate solutions) as opposed to premixed with your RO water.
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post #41 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Edwards View Post
I'd highly suggest only adding Ca, Mg, and K to your water change reservoir as adding other materials can cause unwanted microbial growth. Adding N, P, Fe, and traces directly to the tank will give you the option to customize for your system, which at your scale is going to be important.
Hey Phil this caught my eye. Do you think microbial growth always happens? Might happen? And if it did, what would be the effect?

I ask because I have been front loading all macros for about a year and a half now. For about a year into the tank, and for the last six months right into the RO tanks. So basically dosing the RO water to target concentrations. Now there are circulation pumps and aeration, so the water is not stagnant.

Honestly, I can't say if it's better or worse, really no noticeable difference. But I can tell you that it sure is convenient. Right after a water change I dose the RO with Mg/Ca/K/CO3/NO3/PO4. Takes a couple of minutes and done for the week.

I'm still dosing custom traces daily, but might even give front loading them a whirl at some point.

Just curious in your opinion is there anything I should be keeping an eye out for.


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Last edited by Greggz; 07-08-2019 at 07:21 PM. Reason: typo
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post #42 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks you. I'll make these purchases this week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cl3537 View Post
https://www.amazon.com/Potassium-Bic...grocery&sr=1-7

$54.95 for 10lbs.

Cost per 50G water change $0.32.

https://www.amazon.com/Potassium-Car...grocery&sr=8-2

$40.00 for 10lbs

Cost Per 50G water change $0.04

Pretty big difference in cost but both are relatively inexpensive.

@Miller to remineralize not fertilize you just need one of these + Epsom Salt(Mg Sulfate) + Calcium Sulfate.
To fertilize you will need Macros and Micros but those should be dosed directly into the tank(you can make up separate solutions) as opposed to premixed with your RO water.
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post #43 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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So I've added soil and sand. Was hoping to be a bit more creative with the sand outline but maybe next time. I used some leftover pond liner to separate the soil from the sand. I will trim the liner shorter once I get my hardscape situated in the tank. What do you all think of the soil depth? I am measuring the highest point toward the back at 4 inches. I still have two bags of substrate left if you think I need more.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/eZbK24GDAiqevyFJ9
https://photos.app.goo.gl/U8i12jtnAj72xac9A
https://photos.app.goo.gl/cQFiNZBFAvb8UeDz8
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post #44 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 12:26 PM
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Hey Phil this caught my eye. Do you think microbial growth always happens? Might happen? And if it did, what would be the effect?

I ask because I have been front loading all macros for about a year and a half now. For about a year into the tank, and for the last six months right into the RO tanks. So basically dosing the RO water to target concentrations. Now there are circulation pumps and aeration, so the water is not stagnant.
Any time macros are added to reconstituted water you risk microbial contamination since the buggers then have everything they need to grow. If you're using up all of your container's water at once the risk is pretty low. If there's a decent amount left over the risk increases. We had to drop the pH of NO3 and PO4 solutions at Brightwell to prevent spoilage and I believe Seachem does the same with theirs. If your reservoir's left with nothing but RO in it for a while there's also the chance that any microbes that got in there will blow up due to osmosis. I've always recommended adding N and P directly to the system whenever possible to avoid even the small chance of contamination.
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post #45 of 62 (permalink) Old 07-09-2019, 10:07 PM
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Any time macros are added to reconstituted water you risk microbial contamination since the buggers then have everything they need to grow. If you're using up all of your container's water at once the risk is pretty low. If there's a decent amount left over the risk increases. We had to drop the pH of NO3 and PO4 solutions at Brightwell to prevent spoilage and I believe Seachem does the same with theirs. If your reservoir's left with nothing but RO in it for a while there's also the chance that any microbes that got in there will blow up due to osmosis. I've always recommended adding N and P directly to the system whenever possible to avoid even the small chance of contamination.
I'm planning an RO system and it seems the RO companies suggest not using a bladder tank to store RODI due to bacteria growth(or the rubber smell) and if you do, run the water through a post chlorine filter or DI prior to consumption. This is with no Macros in the water at all. Spectrapure suggested an open reservoir with lid and not the bladder system.

Any thoughts?


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