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post #46 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-04-2019, 05:00 PM
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And one last thing. I've had poor success hatching baby brine shrimp. Is this a no brainer easy exercise and I just have a bad batch of cysts or does it take some practice and expertise?
Brine shrimp are super easy to hatch. Buy this: https://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/hatchery-dish and follow the instructions. I put 1 liter of warm water into a pitcher and add roughly 5 teaspoons of salt. Pour that into this dish and add a scoop of eggs. The first shrimp start appearing in 10 hours or so and continue to hatch for up to two days. The little mesh catcher in the middle easily removes the shrimp and the design of the dish means no aeration and perfect separation from the eggs. It really couldn't be easier.
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post #47 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 12:30 PM Thread Starter
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Brine shrimp are super easy to hatch. Buy this: https://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/hatchery-dish and follow the instructions. I put 1 liter of warm water into a pitcher and add roughly 5 teaspoons of salt. Pour that into this dish and add a scoop of eggs. The first shrimp start appearing in 10 hours or so and continue to hatch for up to two days. The little mesh catcher in the middle easily removes the shrimp and the design of the dish means no aeration and perfect separation from the eggs. It really couldn't be easier.
Hey thanks for the above. Checked that out and even youtubed it. I had been trying with a diy setup but this device does look much easier. Am no longer trying to hatch bbs but hope to have the need again and very well may try this out. Should make plenty for my potential future needs. Perhaps two to rotate. Thanks again.


PS - Will be watching for your angels. Also need to further study your canister/sump combo. Will be following your 125 journal.
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post #48 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-05-2019, 03:47 PM
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This tank is in my office which is within a manufacturing facility where we make wood frames and other wood components for upholstered seating. Not bragging but consequently I have a set of tools available to me that would put Spicoli's dad's to shame. Here is my belt sander for example:


I'm enjoying your journal as well, and wow, super jealous of the tools at your disposal.
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post #49 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 12:49 PM Thread Starter
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Hey, thanks man. Just to put it into perspective, each of those three belts is 52" wide and eight and a half feet in circumference. Yeah, ok, now I'm bragging...
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post #50 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-06-2019, 09:35 PM
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I don't know if this will help, but here are a couple of articles with pictures on plant deficiencies.

Tropical Fish Hobbyist - Jan/Feb 2019 Troubleshooting Nutrient Deficiencies in Aquatic Plants

https://theaquarium.club/aquarium-plants-deficiencies/
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post #51 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 10:30 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the links above butchblack. Studied them both along with some other researching on the subject and am making a few changes to my fert dosing. Probably most significantly, am now adding 5 grams/70 gallons K2SO4 or ~8.5 ppm potassium during weekly 50% water changes. Also bumping up my thrice weekly KH2PO4 from .25 to .30 grams for a little added PO4 fwiw. And had been using dry measured Plantex CSM+B for micros but at such small quantities (.4 grams/dose), was leery my sub-quantities were consistent so mixed up a half gallon yielding 32 liquid doses. Will be watching closely to see if any changes (hopefully for the better) are noticeable.

Gonna be especially hard to see changes if the angels continue to munch on the plants. They're basically attacking the wisteria which fortunately grows quickly and the leaves are large and already jagged-like so not so, so noticeable. The pearl weed and lobelia, however, have taken it pretty hard - both used to be much thicker and obviously had whole leaves:





And the bacopa is worst of all as they've devoured the tips spurring side shoots aplenty:



I haven't a clue what to do about this other than grin and bear it or get less tasty plants. If anyone has any thougts...
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post #52 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 10:33 PM
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Thanks for the links above butchblack. Studied them both along with some other researching on the subject and am making a few changes to my fert dosing. Probably most significantly, am now adding 5 grams/70 gallons K2SO4 or ~8.5 ppm potassium during weekly 50% water changes. Also bumping up my thrice weekly KH2PO4 from .25 to .30 grams for a little added PO4 fwiw. And had been using dry measured Plantex CSM+B for micros but at such small quantities (.4 grams/dose), was leery my sub-quantities were consistent so mixed up a half gallon yielding 32 liquid doses. Will be watching closely to see if any changes (hopefully for the better) are noticeable.

Gonna be especially hard to see changes if the angels continue to munch on the plants. They're basically attacking the wisteria which fortunately grows quickly and the leaves are large and already jagged-like so not so, so noticeable. The pearl weed and lobelia, however, have taken it pretty hard - both used to be much thicker and obviously had whole leaves:





And the bacopa is worst of all as they've devoured the tips spurring side shoots aplenty:



I haven't a clue what to do about this other than grin and bear it or get less tasty plants. If anyone has any thougts...
Your Angels are doing that?

What are you feeding? How often?


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post #53 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 10:55 PM Thread Starter
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Their favorite is Fluval Bug Bites. Also feed Hikari freeze dried blood worms. And Omega One flakes which they like least but are starting to eat better. They probably also end up eating half or more of the Hikari sinking wafers for bottom feeders intended for the cories and kuhli loaches. Have started to also give Omega One slow sinking veggie pellets. Funny thing there is the platinums eat the pellets ok but the blacks - not so much. Am still feeding two or three times a day and each feeding only one of the first three foods listed and usually an attempt with the veggie pellets before first feeding of the day. They just really don't seem to like the hard pellets (as much).
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post #54 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 11:28 PM
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These guys are young aren't they, juveniles to sub-adults? Or are they adults?


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post #55 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-11-2019, 11:41 PM Thread Starter
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I've had them for three months and got them when they were dime to nickel body size - I'm guessing four to six weeks old at that point. So yes, I'd say they are young - sub-adults. I hope you're going toward telling me they may very well grow out of it? Rebellious teenagers perhaps?
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post #56 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 12:15 AM
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Interesting. As I'm planning on having angels I'm curious to see what plants they are eating and what plants they are not. At the moment I'm leaning towards dwarf hair grass, Amazon swords, jungle vai, undecided on mid-ground plants, some anubias and Java moss on the spiderwood, branch, and rocks.

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post #57 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 12:53 AM
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I've had them for three months and got them when they were dime to nickel body size - I'm guessing four to six weeks old at that point. So yes, I'd say they are young - sub-adults. I hope you're going toward telling me they may very well grow out of it? Rebellious teenagers perhaps?
Actually, Im going to tell you that they are telling you something. They are doing it because they need more green in their diet. If they wont eat foods with greens ( besides your lovely plants) will need to supplement with a supplemental vitamin like Boyd's Vitachem.

There are many cichlids where this behavior would be par for the course, but not with Angels.
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post #58 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 01:24 AM
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Is that stand Ambrosia Maple? I love that.
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post #59 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 08:17 AM Thread Starter
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Interesting. As I'm planning on having angels I'm curious to see what plants they are eating and what plants they are not. At the moment I'm leaning towards dwarf hair grass, Amazon swords, jungle vai, undecided on mid-ground plants, some anubias and Java moss on the spiderwood, branch, and rocks.

I don't think this is typical angelfish behavior. Mine though have not shown any interest in vals or swords. I've seen them peck at anubias but I think not for their leaves but for ramshorn snail egg globules. My guys just eat. Think Discusluv is correct and they need more/better veggie food offerings.

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Actually, Im going to tell you that they are telling you something. They are doing it because they need more green in their diet. If they wont eat foods with greens ( besides your lovely plants) will need to supplement with a supplemental vitamin like Boyd's Vitachem.

There are many cichlids where this behavior would be par for the course, but not with Angels.
Yeah, figured. But are you sure it might not just be a phase - jk. Part of me does feel I've contributed to their voracity by intentionally overfeeding initially in "grow out" mode. Made them compulsive eaters? I mean they have bright green poo for heavens sake. I know they are omnivorous but how much vegetation do they need?


Will look into the Boyd's Vitachem. Is it recommended to add to food or directly to tank water? And thanks for all your help!


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Is that stand Ambrosia Maple? I love that.

Hey and yes. In my trade it's called "wormy maple" and is less expensive than some "clear" grades. I suspect you'd be surprised what I pay for it. Have come to find it's very desirable to some other woodworkers and can demand a premium. I've started to have heavily wormy and figured boards set aside for a studio furniture maker friend. I really like it as well.
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post #60 of 66 (permalink) Old 11-12-2019, 08:58 AM
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Have you actually seen your angels munching on the plants? Very odd--never experienced nor heard of angels doing that. Do you still have the tetras & barbs in there? They would seem to be the more likely plant-munching culprits than the angels, but.... That said, mine are about the same age/size as yours, and they do like to pick at the algae when I scrape the walls. Teenagers need their veggies, I guess

Amazing how picky they can be about food. Mine were raised on flake (of which they make an unholy mess during feeding frenzy), and it's been a challenge to wean them onto anything else. The Black Velvets have grown much bigger than the Golden Blushing and will take cichlid pellets if they're really hungry. But when they start to sink, they just watch them go by while begging for more flake. Thankfully the guppies have learned to swarm underneath during feeding time and manage to clean up most of the mess.

@Discusluv is our resident Cichlid Whisperer. Hopefully her feeding suggestions can keep them from destroying your plants--if indeed it is the angels doing it.....
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