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Grobbins 40 Breeder Planted (Previously 40 Breeder Blackwater Journey)

43K views 263 replies 35 participants last post by  chayos00 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi everyone-

I have been excited about my new adventure into a blackwater tank, and thought it was about time to document what I am doing in an exclusive journal vs. intermittent updates on it in my high tech planted journal.

My thought here is to bring some light to this side of the hobby for those on this forum who are interested, and to also learn from others all that I can. It has only been a few months that I have had the tank running in this capacity, so I still have much to learn, and I am sure change.

I'll try and give a brief overview of where things where previous to the setup today over the next couple posts, then will move forward from here. The tank started on November 5th, 2018.

Specs:

Tank: 29 gallon standard tank
Substrate: Black Diamond Blasting Sand
Filter: Sun Sun 702B with 603 prefilter canister
Intake has sponge filter over it

Wood: Mopani, local oak, local Japanese maple
Other: Leaf litter- mini catapa leaves

Plants: Amazon Frogbit, Dwarf Water Lettuce, duckweek

Livestock: 12 pencil fish, 8 oto's, pair of apistogramma agassizii fire red

Here are the very first pictures I have of the tank:
 
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#2 · (Edited)
November 12, 2018

When first putting all of the wood into the tank, especially the mopani, I boiled it, each piece for 10-20 min (cannot remember exactly how long for each. The water from after boiling was extremely tannin stained. I boiled the wood to try and decontaminate, not with the intent of removing tannins. I know mopani is notorious for leaching tannins forever, which is actually a selling point in this case!

At this point, just about a week into the tank, it is nearly black. I mean it is crazy how dark the water is, especially with running a 30" Beamswork DA FSPEC on top that puts out a TON of light.

It was at this time that the floating plants that were from @FishRFriendz were added to the tank. Beautifully package Amazon Frogbit and dwarf water lettuce. It was crazy cold the week we shipped them, but they made it in great shape, and immediately took to the water and started growing like mad!

It was here that I realized just how much nutrients these plants can suck from the water. I would test for N and there would be absolutely zero, none. I would dose 10ppm KNO3, and by the next week, zero, none. Crazy to me! More to come on this, but I have stopped dosing for a bit as I play around with things. Also, hope to have PAR reading sometime this week (but that is jumping in the future from this post! ha)

Here is a shot of what it looked like right when I added the plants:



And here is one from November 28th:



Amazing what nature can do. And here is a photo that I just love. I should take another one like it soon.

 
#3 ·
Today (ish)

The tank has been wonderful, and I am really enjoying having it part of my hobby. It is a cool contrast to the high tech planted setup that is two feet from it. People am amazed at the difference when they visit.

I ended up changing the scape quite a bit. I was not enjoying how things were lumped around the middle, no real theme or reason to placement, etc. I decided to try my hand at creating a more natural looking root structure, with some smaller intricacies with Japanese maple. I must say, I am pretty excited how it turned out.

The Oak and Maple are from my yard, cut down because I needed to prune the trees, then left to dry for a couple months.

Here are a few pictures of it quite recently. Now that I am caught up I'll work to detail in some more thoughts and plans going forward with the aquarium. For those following along, I would love to make this an area to share and discuss!

 
#7 ·
When I can convince my husband :).

If I am not able to, I will convert my 60 gallon over to a black-water tank with just the 4 Altums (and probably a school of larger, deeper bodies tetras like an hypehessobrycon species. Something from Rio Orinoco. That will be all the 60 gallon can support.


Edit: The altums are juveniles right now, at about a half-dollar size. I will wait awhile until they get some growth on them before I convert the tank over and do too much disruption.
 
#8 ·
I'll be sure to follow along if/ when you get something like that going!

Would you go true biotope setup, or a close replication of nature? The more I research, the true biotope 'rules 'are quite intense, and seem difficult to execute correctly. Maybe one day ill explore that as I learn more and have done more on this side of the hobby!
 
#9 ·
I will do my best to do a biotope true to where the Altum are found- but, I will not be too upset if I have to make concessions. So, when you have an attitude like that you mostly put together a "biotope-ish" arrangement.

I haven't spent too much time doing research yet on the plants and tetras endemic to the area. But, when I do, if I cant find what I will need to do this, I will get as close as I can.
 
#11 ·
29 Gallon Blackwater Journey

Black water tanks are awesome. I started mine about 2 years ago and it’s by far my favorite style tank. It also helps that Apistogramma are my favorite fish.

Also, I’ve been looking for some water lettuce. If you’re willing to ship let me know and I’ll buy some from you.

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#12 ·
Black water tanks are awesome. I started mine about 2 years ago and it’s by far my favorite style tank. It also helps that Apistogramma are my favorite fish.

Also, I’ve been looking for some water lettuce. If you’re willing to ship let me know and I’ll buy some from you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Can we see a picture of your tank?



Like I said, we need a biotope/natural aquarium subcategory.
 
#13 ·
@Nlewis yes, please feel free to share a picture(s). I would love to see what you created! I also enjoy the apisto thread that you started.

I'll send you a PM on the dwarf wate lettuce, I would be happy to share. In a week or two I should have a whole bunch extra. Hopefully we can find a week with decent weather too! It's getting cold again!
 
#15 ·
@Nlewis that really is beautiful. With being successful spawning the apistos, any recommendations? I have only had mine a few months, and do far no action. The female may still be a bit young? I am not sure. They are apistogramma agassizii fire red.

I too would like to have this tank create a few generations!

As for the botanicals- did you use tannin aquatics or another source? I really like the look of more natural litter on the substrate, but I have yet to place an order. Still trying to decide what I would want, or if I would go for the $25 mystery package they offer.
 
#20 ·
@Nlewis that really is beautiful. With being successful spawning the apistos, any recommendations? I have only had mine a few months, and do far no action. The female may still be a bit young? I am not sure. They are apistogramma agassizii fire red.



I too would like to have this tank create a few generations!



As for the botanicals- did you use tannin aquatics or another source? I really like the look of more natural litter on the substrate, but I have yet to place an order. Still trying to decide what I would want, or if I would go for the $25 mystery package they offer.


Agassizii can be a bit tricky as they can be finicky when choosing a mate. I had some Fire Red and Abacaxis have successful spawns but with no grow outs. The biggest thing is to ensure they feel comfortable.

I have ordered from Tannin twice. Both times I just bought whatever pods I liked. FYI, I love the banana stems. For leaves I just use hard wood leaves from the yard.

Later on as the tank ages the tannins will fade to the point it becomes a “clear water” biotope. I chased tannins for the longest time trying to recreate black water with a small bit of success. When that happens Robios tea is your friend.

I’ll get some pics of the Panduro babes for you later tonight[emoji6].


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#16 ·
As the lights came on today I noticed that the flow was nearly nothing. No surface agitation from the spray bar at all. So I disconnect to see the flow rate, and it had to be around 1 gallon per couple min.

The culprit was the foam pre-filter that I added. I realized I did not clean it this week, and it was pretty horribly clogged. The foam is also quite dense, maybe a little too dense for a pre-filter. For the time being I have removed it and instantly the flow went back to a decent rate. So now I have just the standard intake on, and no foam at the moment. When I have more time I'll need to experiment a bit and decide what I want to do.
 
#17 ·
Search around for foam with larger pores and make your own. I really only use one to keep shrimplets in the display tank, so I'm not tasked with "saving" a few dozen from the filter at each cleaning = faster filter service. It's just a bonus that the media is way easier to clean / way less dirty because of the pre-filter. I use the Fluval edge sponge, but I'm thinking of looking for / building a pre-filter sponge using one with larger pores. Replace often because 1) sponges are cheap 2) keeps pores cleaner = more flow 3) piece of mind your filter motor is working slightly less.
 
#18 ·
That is some good advice. For me using the sponge was two fold: 1) to keep the media/ filter cleaner longer and 2) if (hopefully when) the apistos spawn I didn't want any fry sucked up.

I think I ordered these current fine ones off the bay and they were insanely cheap. When I have some time later on I'll put a fresh one on and see what that flow is like. It might be as simple as changing/ cleaning one or two times a week.

If that is a no go I'll look for something a bit more course and go from there!
 
#22 ·
I just use hot water in a large glass and add it to the tank once it cools. I use 1 tea bag per 10 gallons and it works great. It gives it a great look without making it too dark.



Pictures aren’t the best. The little guys wouldn’t cooperate with me last night and stop darting around.


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#23 ·
@Nlewis Thanks for the advice on the blackwater. Later on when the tannins are not so present I'll give that a try. Also, very nice on the little apistos, it must be a blast to watch them grow and interact!

As I look around for botanicals, I have seen Tannin Aquatics. They seem to get good reviews, and praise on this forums well as others. Are there any other places people recommend? I am not looking for leaf litter, but more of pods and things of that nature to help enhance the look of the tank and the feel to the environment for the apistos.
 
#25 ·
Over the past week I ended up adding some more branches from the Japanese Maple drying in my garage. This time no boiling or anything, just plopped them in and wait a few days for them to sink. I think it is a decent look, though likely needs a little arranging. Doing that with a surface full of floating plants can be a bit tough, so maybe in a few more days I'll thin it out even more and do some arranging.

On another note I finally purchased a temp controller. Never have I ever used one, and knock on wood I have not yet had a heater issue. They are just cheaper Azoo units, the Micro Temperature Controller. My thought is to use it as a fail safe (set about 1 degree C above where I want the tank) and let the heater set the temperature. I am not sure if this is the proper use, but I have the blackwater set to 26 C right now. I also added a new sticker thermometer just to see where things were at. Really new, but so far seem decent. Would love to hear from anyone else who has experience with this unit, or temp controllers in general.

Here are a few pics on how things are looking.

Temp controller:



Random shots:















FTS:

 
#29 ·
Got to love finding babies!!

As far as the temp controller, I have the controller for setting the tank temperature. I have the heaters set to about 5 degrees above (81F), in fahrenheit for my temp controller. The theory is that the actual heaters fail at the bimetallic strip device in the heater, from the opening and closing of the power across it. So if you can have it not get that arc from power on and off that should help the heater last longer. At least this was the logic I followed for using the controller to set the temp and the heaters as the failover.
 
#30 ·
Got to love finding babies!!



As far as the temp controller, I have the controller for setting the tank temperature. I have the heaters set to about 5 degrees above (81F), in fahrenheit for my temp controller. The theory is that the actual heaters fail at the bimetallic strip device in the heater, from the opening and closing of the power across it. So if you can have it not get that arc from power on and off that should help the heater last longer. At least this was the logic I followed for using the controller to set the temp and the heaters as the failover.
Thanks for the temp controller feedback. I'll need to read a bit more but that makes sense as a safety to have ot cut the power at the set temp vs. the heater doing it.

And yes, exciting to find babies unexpectedly. Let's hope some make it through the first few weeks!
 
#31 ·
The parenting that is happening in this tank is extremely impressive right now. Mom is all over the babies, who are already quite adventurous. It is exciting to watch her change her body language and how the babies will all react and follow her around. She keeps moving them around the tank to different spots every so often, and will not let anyone (well dad is okay so far), not even the oto's, get close to her little ones. When a few get too far away she takes them in her mouth and brings them back home. She has quite the touch! Reminds me a little of the African Cichlid days!

Even dad, who I read was supposed to not care about raising the young (for agassizii at least I read) is defending the area from the pencil fish (who really are not seeming interested in eating anyone) and the oto's (the most peaceful fish ever...). He lacks a little with the careful touch when trying to move the little ones, so he better leave that to mom (hes not eating them, but in true dad style is a little rough with the kids and too young an age, ha).

I know it is only day two of having the little ones, and there is quite a while to go for this to be successful, but it is an amazing experience to watch nature like this happen in your home!
 
#32 ·
Mom and dad continue to protect. Still have over 20 fry hanging around. These little ones seem like they will be slow growers for sure.

Really moving around the tank as a unit, exploring quite a bit.

I did add a few more leaves to stimulate some more microbe growth.

Picture with mom and dad protecting. And you can see a few fry to the left. Super difficult to focus on with a phone camera, and no macro lenses for my DSLR.
 
#33 ·
Mom and dad continue to protect. Still have over 20 fry hanging around. These little ones seem like they will be slow growers for sure.

Really moving around the tank as a unit, exploring quite a bit.

I did add a few more leaves to stimulate some more microbe growth.

Picture with mom and dad protecting. And you can see a few fry to the left. Super difficult to focus on with a phone camera, and no macro lenses for my DSLR.
Damn... I guess I know my plans for tonight, move my female into the tank with the male....
 
#37 ·
Thanks! I have been quite impressed by them. I'll be honest didn't expect any fry to make it one week in.
Those Apistos look stunning!


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Thanks! It really is crazy how beautiful those fins can get with no fighting or nipping. When I purchased them from the store the male was okay looking but didn't have nearly the tail he has now.

Hopefuly some of these fry make it, very curious to see how they raise up!
 
#38 ·
Removed some of the floating plants, wow they grow fast. Getting plenty mor delight into the tank now.

There are about 10 or so fry left (I think) and of those some seem much larger than others. Still hoping for a few of them to pull through. Live BBS feeding is not an option, so I have been using the hikari first bites, and feed the tank with frozen cyclops as well as frozen brine shrimp.














 
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