Keating1's 55G - Water Changes - Page 33 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #481 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 02:56 AM Thread Starter
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What I’ve finding out is the pressure can vary across the flowmeter (FM) depending on what one is using to control the flow. In my setup I have the needle valve at the regulator and one on the flow meter. If I leave the valve at the FM wide open and adjust the regulator needle valve, then the pressure drop across the FM is zero. If the needle valve at the regulator is wide open, and the FM valve is used to control the flow, then the pressure drop is quite a bit larger. And then one can adjust both valves for any combination in-between and the pressure drops will be divided between the valves depending on the position of the valves. So the pressures at the incoming and outgoing side can vary greatly depending how the valves are positioned. The CO2 diffuser is via a inline diffuser by GLA. What I’m finding out is flow does not start until the pressure is around 20 psi.

@Immortal1, Regarding the FM valve placement, I’m not close to exceeding the scale of the FM, so having it in the input side works fine. If I had the valve on the output side, then the reading would be very low on the scale.

In looking at my notes on previous CO2 tank usage and doing calcs what I’m seeing is I’m injecting 36 grams CO2 per day into the tank, or approximately 6 grams per hour. Knowing this has been helpful in setting up this new system. This morning I had the scale mode set to Lbs-oz but the calcs get a little confusing whereas when the values are in Kg or grams the calcs are much easier to do and understand. So for now listing values in grams/day or grams per hour is much easier. So far the scale has been consistent all day, showing a linear drop of weight.
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post #482 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 06:31 AM
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Just to put it in perspective..

8.74 cu ft =1lb CO2
247489.2cc = 1lb CO2
1lb =453.592g

6g =0.0132277lbs
247489.2 x 0.0132277 = 3,273.7 cc/hr

54.56cc/min..
.91cc/sec..
1cc =1000cm

910 millimeters cubed/second


Quote:
3 mm diameter bubble
(4 3) (d 2) ^3
= (4 3) x 3.14 x (1.5 mm x 1.5 mm x 1.5 mm)
= 14.13 cubic millimeters

6 mm diameter bubble
(4 3) (d 2) ^3
= (4 3) x 3.14 x (3 mm x 3 mm x 3 mm)
= 113.04 cubic millimeters


Then 113.04 cubic millimeters 14.13 cubic millimeters = 8 times

This means that when the bubble’s diameter is twice as large, the volume increases by 8 times.
soo 8bps w/ 6mm bubbles.
64.4 w/ 3mm bubbles


Why not to use bubble counters..
Sorry just playing a bit..
See any errors?

Charts for pressure/temp/ and gas correction factors..
https://store.mathesongas.com/rotameter-guide/



Oh while playing I did see a recommendation for putting solenoids in the outflow not inflow..
all sorts of little things eh..
and more charts.. 20psi in tube for THIS tube..
http://www.mathesongas.com/pdfs/flow...020%20PSIG.pdf
https://store.mathesongas.com/rotameter-flow-curves/
Quote:
Note that for flowmeters calibrated at standard conditions with a valve on the inlet, readings on the tube are correct provided that the outlet pressure is close to atmospheric. When the valve is on the outlet, readings are correct if the inlet gas pressure is equal to the pressure for which the tube was calibrated
Which doesn't matter if one does their own system calibration..
Pretty sure it's not linear so need a few points..
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Last edited by jeffkrol; 03-22-2020 at 11:26 PM. Reason: 3mm
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post #483 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 07:11 AM
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ken, the temperature effect won't cause much discrepancy because it should be within +10%.
to weight it, is much more accurate but it will take a while to get the compared result.

and

I am working on something right now, will show you my ideas and how the flowmeters can do for our planted tank co2 injection.


btw, nice co2 system you have, it is the first time I saw someone else use a UK 0.65 watts predyne/kip solenoid.
also, I think you can take out the parker HR metering valve cartridge, and replace the needle valve on the Porter flow meter(I have not yet try it though).

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Keating1 View Post
What Ive finding out is the pressure can vary across the flowmeter (FM) depending on what one is using to control the flow. In my setup I have the needle valve at the regulator and one on the flow meter. If I leave the valve at the FM wide open and adjust the regulator needle valve, then the pressure drop across the FM is zero. If the needle valve at the regulator is wide open, and the FM valve is used to control the flow, then the pressure drop is quite a bit larger. And then one can adjust both valves for any combination in-between and the pressure drops will be divided between the valves depending on the position of the valves. So the pressures at the incoming and outgoing side can vary greatly depending how the valves are positioned. The CO2 diffuser is via a inline diffuser by GLA. What Im finding out is flow does not start until the pressure is around 20 psi.

@Immortal1, Regarding the FM valve placement, Im not close to exceeding the scale of the FM, so having it in the input side works fine. If I had the valve on the output side, then the reading would be very low on the scale.

In looking at my notes on previous CO2 tank usage and doing calcs what Im seeing is Im injecting 36 grams CO2 per day into the tank, or approximately 6 grams per hour. Knowing this has been helpful in setting up this new system. This morning I had the scale mode set to Lbs-oz but the calcs get a little confusing whereas when the values are in Kg or grams the calcs are much easier to do and understand. So for now listing values in grams/day or grams per hour is much easier. So far the scale has been consistent all day, showing a linear drop of weight.
turn the FM up side down, the desired pressure will stay the same in the glass tube, I think I mention this in my post. I added info on the first post once in a while, don't miss out.
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post #484 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post

soo 8bps w/ 6mm bubbles.
64.4 w/ 4mm bubbles


Why not to use bubble counters..
The calcs are good, but for the bubble sizes you calculated for 3 mm bubbles but then listed it as 4mm bubbles.

The only issue with bubbles is getting the micrometer around them!!!

Thanks for the references, they're helpful with some great info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettatail View Post
ken, the temperature effect won't cause much discrepancy because it should be within +10%.


btw, nice co2 system you have, it is the first time I saw someone else use a UK 0.65 watts predyne/kip solenoid.
also, I think you can take out the parker HR metering valve cartridge, and replace the needle valve on the Porter flow meter(I have not yet try it though).

Bump:

turn the FM up side down, the desired pressure will stay the same in the glass tube, I think I mention this in my post. I added info on the first post once in a while, don't miss out.
Yes, the temps are minor, but there's also the accuracy of the pressure gauges, so if you take the two together the errors start adding up.

For my setup the valve at the regulator is sorta used as a limiter for CO2 flow. The way I set my system up is the regulator valve is set to allow the flow to be a little higher than the flow required. The FM valve is then used for fine tuning. If for some reason the FM valve gets changed by kids or pets, then the regulator valve limits the flow.

Not sure by what you mean if I flip the FM upside down the pressure will still be same, please explain. If one just flips it upside down the pressure would be the same, but the float will just settle to the bottom, so I'm not sure why one would want to flip it upside down.

Today I'll be watching the scale and taking notes, but so far it's much easier to work with grams/hour rather than having to deal with the conversion factors of trying to obtain CC/Min via the FM.
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post #485 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Keating1 View Post
Not sure by what you mean if I flip the FM upside down the pressure will still be same, please explain. If one just flips it upside down the pressure would be the same, but the float will just settle to the bottom, so I'm not sure why one would want to flip it upside down.
The flowmeters are designed to be flipped up side down(inside glass tube need to flip as well), so the inlet/outlet can be reversed.

If the valve at bottom/inlet, the pressure inside the glass tube is the same as outlet, which is standard atmosphere pressure for all flowmeters.
but if you want to measure the flow rate while the flow media under certain pressure, the valve at the bottom/inlet setting have the problem to keep the pressure in bay. Now, the flowmeter needed to be flipped, so this certain pressure will be hold steady inside the glass tube, by the valve at the top/outlet.

check my flowmeter thread, post one, for detail, and @Immortal1 also provide detail and pictures how he dissembled and reverse his flowmeter inlet/outlet in the same thread.

if you use the HR metering valve on the co2 system to be the flow control device, there is no way to hold steady the pressure inside the flowmeter.

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Keating1 View Post
Yes, the temps are minor, but there's also the accuracy of the pressure gauges, so if you take the two together the errors start adding up.
there is always errors, but if they are within the tolerant range, it is ok.
or the purpose of a flow meter is thrown out the door....


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post #486 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-22-2020, 10:58 PM
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Wow the starting of the thread with the planning and schematics is all very impressive haha, keep up the good work, will have to look around more in the thread!
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post #487 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 04:00 AM Thread Starter
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OK, getting bored with staying home so I'm posting fish photos!!!







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post #488 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 04:27 AM
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OK, getting bored with staying home so I'm posting fish photos!!!






I need sunglasses, those fish are glowing!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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post #489 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 12:48 PM
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Man if only I could find a decent breeder for Preacox....
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post #490 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 01:21 PM
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Plants are looking really healthy also, Ken! Very nice pictures!
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post #491 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 01:58 PM
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Kinda like it when you get bored Ken - great set of pictures. Something I will have to work on today (already bored...)
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post #492 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 03:36 PM
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Those are some darn nice looking Praecox.

If I recall, those are the Pagai strain originating from Gary Lange?
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post #493 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 05:03 PM
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So incredible. I wish I could take pictures of mine like you can. You are a wonderful photographer.
My baby pracox is still hanging out with the gold/dark ram fry. He /she is a cutie. Eats like a horse and almost double the size of the rams.

They rummy -nose are just as spectacular- need picture of them!
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post #494 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Immortal1 View Post
Kinda like it when you get bored Ken - great set of pictures. Something I will have to work on today (already bored...)
Quote:
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Those are some darn nice looking Praecox.

If I recall, those are the Pagai strain originating from Gary Lange?
The three largest ones are from the LFS purchased two years ago. This was before I knew what a rainbow fish was before I had ever heard of Gary Lange.

Quote:
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So incredible. I wish I could take pictures of mine like you can. You are a wonderful photographer.
My baby pracox is still hanging out with the gold/dark ram fry. He /she is a cutie. Eats like a horse and almost double the size of the rams.

They rummy -nose are just as spectacular- need picture of them!
Here's some more photos!











This is a False Rummy Nose Tetra(Petitella Georgiae), part of a group of five I received at the Dec Sacramento Aquarium Society meeting. Most of the others are Brilliant Rummy Nose Tetras(Hemigrammus Bleheri)


Next time I need to clean the glass off before I take photos!!!
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post #495 of 605 (permalink) Old 03-24-2020, 08:38 PM
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The three largest ones are from the LFS purchased two years ago. This was before I knew what a rainbow fish was before I had ever heard of Gary Lange.



Here's some more photos!











This is a False Rummy Nose Tetra(Petitella Georgiae), part of a group of five I received at the Dec Sacramento Aquarium Society meeting. Most of the others are Brilliant Rummy Nose Tetras(Hemigrammus Bleheri)


Next time I need to clean the glass off before I take photos!!!
Wow! Love both of those 2 rummynose for different reasons- the bleheri have the most fantastic red noses and the georgiae have the most amazing graphic-like black and white tails. Only nature could think up such an amazing fish.



And the marble tetra--- so pretty.



Are you ready for another pie? I can just drop it off on your porch and pick up the other plate. You probably shouldn't have visitors right now.


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