Rolla's 118G Journal (Photo heavy) - Page 5 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #61 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-28-2019, 07:50 PM
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Fish food has Ammonia in it, ths is nothing new, reading depend on where you are pulling your sample from in the tank. But if Ammonia persists from your previous feeding (like 8 - 12 hours before) you are likely feeding too much or had recently increased the amount. I prefer Vibra Bites over flakes and so do my fish, its a lot more like live foods for fussy eaters and doesn't dissolve before the fish get it.
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post #62 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cl3537 View Post
Fish food has Ammonia in it, ths is nothing new, reading depend on where you are pulling your sample from in the tank. But if Ammonia persists from your previous feeding (like 8 - 12 hours before) you are likely feeding too much or had recently increased the amount. I prefer Vibra Bites over flakes and so do my fish, its a lot more like live foods for fussy eaters and doesn't dissolve before the fish get it.
The spike was from 0ppm to 0.25ppm. The spike would show up a few hours after feeding and then disappear after an hour or two. So it wasn't overfeeding. Truth be told I haven't overfed since I first saw planaria back in the late 2000's. There's a clear correlation between the specific food and a spike.

Since cutting NLS (Flake) out of their diet I haven't had a spike so I'm confident in the findings. Also, I feed other foods which have a much higher protein percentage in comparison to NLS and they didn't cause a spike.
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post #63 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 01:00 AM
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[QUOTE=RollaPrime;11210599]
Day 1: Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm - All day
Day 2: Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm (Before 1st feed) Ammonia 0.25ppm Nitrite 0ppm (3 hours after first feed) Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm - Rest of the day
Day 3: Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm (1st and 2nd feed) Ammonia 0.25ppm Nitrite 0ppm (3 hours after 3rd feed) Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm - Rest of the night
Day 4: Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm (Before 1st feed) Ammonia 0.25ppm Nitrite 0ppm (3 hours after 2nd feed) Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm - Rest of the day


I read your table wrong, you are just saying some types of food causes API kit to register 0.25ppm 3 hours after some feedings?
How long have you had the discus in the tank, these readings may go down the stronger your BB become.
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post #64 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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[quote=cl3537;11210755]
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Originally Posted by RollaPrime View Post
Day 1: Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm - All day
Day 2: Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm (Before 1st feed) Ammonia 0.25ppm Nitrite 0ppm (3 hours after first feed) Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm - Rest of the day
Day 3: Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm (1st and 2nd feed) Ammonia 0.25ppm Nitrite 0ppm (3 hours after 3rd feed) Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm - Rest of the night
Day 4: Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm (Before 1st feed) Ammonia 0.25ppm Nitrite 0ppm (3 hours after 2nd feed) Ammonia 0ppm Nitrite 0ppm - Rest of the day


I read your table wrong, you are just saying some types of food causes API kit to register 0.25ppm 3 hours after some feedings?
How long have you had the discus in the tank, these readings may go down the stronger your BB become.
Not "some" foods just "one" specific food: New Life Spectrum Flake. I have 8 different types which the discus gobble without hesitation. But New Life Spectrum flake causes a spike from 0ppm to 0.25ppm It lasts for an hour or two and then returns to 0ppm.





Since this test I have bought more foods and even had a local hobbyist drop off a couple of cubes of beefheart, the #1 pollutant according to everything I've read and been told. And got double 0ppm for both nitrite and ammonia.

Note: The beef heart is actually Beef heart + Shrimp meat + Mussel meat + Lobster eggs

And while it didn't smell bad to me it was the most potent meat smelling fish food I've ever encountered. I fed that to them last night without issue. Therefore the only logical conclusion I can come to is that for some reason the discus don't digest and absorb NLS "flake" as well as they do other foods. Including other NLS products and foods that are known to pollute such as beefheart and food with "less" nutritional value like blood/black worms, brine shrimp etc etc.
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post #65 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 02:17 PM
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Not "some" foods just "one" specific food: New Life Spectrum Flake. I have 8 different types which the discus gobble without hesitation. But New Life Spectrum flake causes a spike from 0ppm to 0.25ppm It lasts for a or two and then returns to 0ppm.
Heavier planting and stronger BB will remove it faster, but of course you don't have to use that food.
Use it again in a week to see if you can reproduce the Ammonia readings.
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post #66 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 06:03 PM
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I have used New Life Spectrum for many years- the discus specific food is excellent. Actually, all my fish get New Life Spectrum because its one of the best prepared foods on the market: nutritionally balanced, highest quality ingredients and utilizes a low-fat protein for cichlids like discus that need it specifically for healthy growth and building of immune system. No ammonia spikes detected, but, then again, when I grow out discus that are your size I do daily water changes so dont bother with testing water.

But, that said, my discus are not fed this exclusively. I also feed a mixture of frozen and freeze-dried foods in combination with prepared.
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post #67 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 06:54 PM
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Here is one of the most comprehensive articles on fish nutrition that I have ever read. It was done by company that sells New Life Spectrum, but the claims are backed up by peer-review research. Take a look:

http://nlsfishfood.com/wp-content/up...on-Article.pdf
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180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #68 of 74 (permalink) Old 05-29-2019, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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I have used New Life Spectrum for many years- the discus specific food is excellent. Actually, all my fish get New Life Spectrum because its one of the best prepared foods on the market: nutritionally balanced, highest quality ingredients and utilizes a low-fat protein for cichlids like discus that need it specifically for healthy growth and building of immune system. No ammonia spikes detected, but, then again, when I grow out discus that are your size I do daily water changes so dont bother with testing water.

But, that said, my discus are not fed this exclusively. I also feed a mixture of frozen and freeze-dried foods in combination with prepared.
Indeed. It's a food I swear by. It transformed the colour of all my apistos. I had 3 pairs at the time and despite them all being several years old within 2 weeks of introducing it they damn near sparkled. Taking your earlier advice in the discus thread I wanted to include the food as part of their diet. The NLS Thera A and NLS discus all go down a treat but for whatever reason, they don't seem to be digesting "The NLS Flake" in the same way.



The spike, as annoying as they were, didn't worry me too much because they were never sustained. It'd show up and then leave within 2 hours. My theory is that the juveniles are just not used to it and it passes through them partially digested. Akin to me adding food to the tank that just sits there.
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post #69 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-03-2019, 08:38 PM Thread Starter
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So it looks like I'm going to have to address this peppering "issue." To begin with it wasn't an issue for me but I've seen that as they grow older it distorts their coloration completely so I'm going to have to address it. Problem is I'm not sure what to do and my background is spray painted black.

: (
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post #70 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 06:38 PM
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Problem is I'm not sure what to do and my background is spray painted black.
A razor blade takes the paint off the back very easily on a glass tank. My first paint job on the back of my tank had a bit of a leak and bubbled the paint, so I had to redo it.

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post #71 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 07:55 PM Thread Starter
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A razor blade takes the paint off the back very easily on a glass tank. My first paint job on the back of my tank had a bit of a leak and bubbled the paint, so I had to redo it.
Hey Chayos. I think I'm going to leave the background as it is and plant a wall of vall to "cover it up" so to speak. These beasties produce a lot of waste that pushes my nitrates and the val should eat into that. I didn't consider a rasor blade but I'll buy a few just in case the initial plan doesn't work. Thank for the advice.




@Discusluv @discuspaul I'm noticing some really strange behavior. As you know my discus are juvies but one has taken to a large anubias and refuses to let anyone near it. I believe she's female in fact I'm 99.9% sure after I saw her breeding tube, a tiny triangle, after a water change. She is too small to spawn and there has been no courtship but if any of the other 5 come near it she'll chase them around the tank and she is dar from the biggest in the tank but her aggression about and around this plant is strange.
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post #72 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-09-2019, 09:37 PM
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Very strange behavior that's new to me - I've never seen or heard of behavior like that from a discus - a complete mystery. Let us know if it continues for any length of time.
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post #73 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-12-2019, 11:42 PM Thread Starter
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I don't think I've ever had this much fun in the hobby. My journey with apistos started shortly after I started to understand the biology of a planted tank. To me, they were so full of personality but they pale in comparison to discus. I'm in absolute awe to the point where they actually featured, briefly, in a dream I had recently

The downside is that they don't seem to like my neons. They actively hunt and bite them. In a month I've lost between 8-10 cardinals which is annoying because I was told cardinals are good dithers for discus but they're slowly eliminating the school. I caught some of this on camera...



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Very strange behavior that's new to me - I've never seen or heard of behavior like that from a discus - a complete mystery. Let us know if it continues for any length of time.
It's been over a week. She bullies every other discus who dares go near it while she's there. Being as experienced as you are with this species, the following will probably sound weird to you, that said, I think she's practicing spawning. Not the actual act of spawning more so keeping others away from her designated leafs of choice. Again, it's only around this specific plant that she displays the aggression.
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post #74 of 74 (permalink) Old 06-13-2019, 01:43 AM
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Well, that's still very strange, imo.
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