120G Reboot - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-13-2018, 03:37 PM Thread Starter
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120G Reboot

A few years back I bought this tank, and along the way, I have learned a lot about planted tanks. It also endured a move to a new house, and a lot of other trials on my end. I'm planning on utilizing my lessons learned, and should've, could'ves to make this reboot what I had originally envisioned for this tank. When I previously set up the tank, I had fish in the mix, so there was zero time for aquascaping and planning. Now I have no fish to worry about, and can take my time.

This is the tank as it stands right now. Only plants aside from a few stray stems, after a massive cleanout (2 full 5 gallon buckets - one was just moss) of the floating mass of stems/moss from the neglect it suffered (I only kept changing out CO2 tanks - remarkably NO algae), are a lot of anubias nana petite and some moss. The anubias need some serious trimming and prunning of old growth/leaves, but otherwise, I have a LOT of them to work with for the new aquascape.

Here she is:


A lot of mini plantlets all over the driftwood, along with larger ones. Everything on the driftwood is anubias. I am amazed that with all the neglect, I ended up with no algae. I always tried so hard to combat algae with this tank, and lo and behold, aside from GSA, there's nada.

Tank Stats:
Marineland 120g Reef-Ready - 48"x24"x24"
45g ADHI Berlin Sump
QuietOne pro 5000 return pump
Pro-1 SS Regulator
20lb CO2 tank
Eheim 300 Watt heater
5 Sunblaster T5HO with NanoTech Reflectors
260 pounds of Eco Complete
Koralia 800gph Powerhead

I am having a cord of wood delivered tomorrow, and plan on asking the guys (BF's friends), to help us move the tank upstairs and level it. In preparation I am going to drain everything today, and wash the gravel out bucket by bucket. There is a LOT of detritus in this tank. I plan on refilling the sump once it is out of the tank stand and throwing a few old powerheads or a HOB in it to keep everything some-what cycled. I hope by keeping the sump cycled, when the tank gets filled again, it will help to keep it from re-cycling entirely.

My would've/should've to-do list:
Hard Plumb the Return line:
I used flex vinyl tubing for the first go, and it has been a major PITA to keep it where I want. I ended up resorting to duct tape to keep it in place at the top of the tank. The pressure from the pump along with the not so flexible nature of "flex" (HA) vinyl tubing keeps it from staying where it I would prefer. I plan on using a short amount to connect to the hard pvc to make it easy to disconnect and service. I also want to overuse unions to ease the maintenance of everything. The tank will be sitting in the living room where we spend 90% of our time, so I want to also paint the pvc black so it's not as noticeable.

CO2 reactor return:
ATM my reactor is fed by a really small little pump that sits in the first chamber of my sump, and the outlet is right by the pump. It's not pretty nor neat. I want to properly anchor down the out-flow hose, and neaten up the whole set-up. Possibly mount it somewhere on the back of the stand.

More Flow:
This tank is in desperate need of better flow. It became really evident after I let it go with the loss of the last fish, and the plant mulm/detritus all concentrated in a strip down the middle of the tank. The spot directly under the overflow is the worst. I might need to get another powerhead in the tank, but I want it to be fairly unobtrusive. I have a lot of old AC powerheads, but as reliable as they are (some are 15-16 years old), they are clunky. Any good suggestions for small powerheads? My return is very strong, but it misses a good chunk of the tank, even though it's pointing downwards.





Found some comical old pictures to add to this. Grown up a lot since then, learned a lot since then, but its always interesting to see where we've come from.

How it all first started (this humors me now):

Non aquatic plant - check. Pool comet growing out - check. Glo Fish - check.

Upgraded to T5s - two, which in hindsight, was a lot for this tank. And I had a UGV, and I used root tabs. The result? A masterpiece:


Got mad, ripped everything out. Bought a CO2 regulator.


Got to this point:


Then said screw it, and bought this tank:
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/1...k-project.html

(20 years old - first big purchase, and I buy a fish tank. Terrible.)

Weird to see my early 20s described by fish tanks. Including my lack of common sense - which I still lack.
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post #2 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-13-2018, 08:15 PM
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Hi Sprano.



Thanks for posting. Your opening post is an intresting read and I look forward to how you solve the hurdles you face. I have a tank similar sized tank which isn't fully up and running but I have the same problems. Specifically...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Soprano View Post


CO2 reactor return:
ATM my reactor is fed by a really small little pump that sits in the first chamber of my sump, and the outlet is right by the pump. It's not pretty nor neat. I want to properly anchor down the out-flow hose, and neaten up the whole set-up. Possibly mount it somewhere on the back of the stand.

More Flow:
This tank is in desperate need of better flow. It became really evident after I let it go with the loss of the last fish, and the plant mulm/detritus all concentrated in a strip down the middle of the tank. The spot directly under the overflow is the worst. I might need to get another powerhead in the tank, but I want it to be fairly unobtrusive. I have a lot of old AC powerheads, but as reliable as they are (some are 15-16 years old), they are clunky. Any good suggestions for small powerheads? My return is very strong, but it misses a good chunk of the tank, even though it's pointing downwards.
I'm interested to see the power head you choose because they do all seem a little intrusive and bulky. Really interested to see how this build develops.
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post #3 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 02:32 PM Thread Starter
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The flow is honestly my biggest thing. The pump I have is pushing around 750gph (decent amount of head loss), but it misses a good chunk of the tank directly underneath it. But I had similar issues even on my 40g long. But with this tank, the problem is magnified. My 40g long it got so bad, I ended up with a huge bloom of staghorn. In addition to a penguin 350 HOB, I had three AC 30s running in the tank to get a solid amount of flow across the entire tank.... If it weren't for me pushing a lot of CO2 into this tank, I'd probably be in the same spot.

Two solutions I can think of:
One - Get a bigger pump for my CO2 reactor (right now its a pathetic little thing), and have it return to the tank. My standpipe should be able to handle it, as I have the gate valve about 3/4 of the way closed right now. I can utilize the return as another source of flow. If I have it come up and enter from the opposite side of the tank, I can have it take over the dead spot the koralia was working on. Then, just simply put the koralia on the side of the tank to hit the big dead spot down the center of the tank. Plus I think I my reactor would work better (it does burp a lot), if I had more flow. I think this is the cheapest solution.

Two - They sell eductors at BRS which are supposed to increase the force of the return flow. I have considered that, or just a wide open "pipe" versus the nozzles that I have on the tank right now. I don't need the concentrated flow, just more water movement overall. If only they made 1" lily pipes, that would be perfect. But I would still need to add a powerhead regardless. Unless of course, changing the nozzles is enough to disturb the spot my koralia is working on. The front right corner of the tank gets neglected as well, but if I can get the flow to be better distributed across the front of the tank, I can still use just one koralia to take care of the middle/back. Or possibly two.

I did look into some of the small small powerheads, but I don't think they will push enough water. I have an extra koralia 1600gph that I bought for my SW tank, but that's almost TOO much.
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post #4 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-14-2018, 03:03 PM Thread Starter
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The tank is as empty as its going to get. I have a tub of 260ish pounds of gravel outside. I removed it in 5 gallon bucket amounts. Rinsed it in the bucket until the water was clear. Didn't think about how I was actually going to move that since it weighs more than the actual tank.... Probably resort to the dolly. My hope is the chlorinated water rinse out, plus the cold weather will kill all of the snails. No one seems to nominate these guys to be the survivors of a nuclear disaster. They are my nomination.


My sump has an AC something HOB on it and my powerhead to keep the water aerated, and hopefully keep the sump somewhat cycled. I threw a bunch of NLS pellets in there since I ran out of ammonia.


I ended up with a LOT more anubias than I originally expected. A lot of it needs old nutrient deficient leaves (I wasn't dosing ferts) trimmed off, and the roots cut back. But overall, I have a lot for my next scape to utilize.



I ended up heading to my LFS in hopes of finding 1" bulkheads (the big box stores do NOT carry these), but ended up with new driftwood pieces. The large piece is HEAVY. I shouldn't have to worry about it not sinking. Its more appropriately sized for this tank, compared to the two stumps I had in there. I might still figure out a way to utilize the stumps but we will see.


Another lesson:
Replace the bulkheads that marineland sends with their RR tanks immediately with threadxthread bulkheads. The ones they send are slips, and I was smart enough to leave a lot of spare pipe to constantly cut and recouple. I am now at the point where I can no longer remate my bulkhead with my main drain. The emergency drain is just two straight standpipes, so its easy to pull out the top of the tank, but the main drain, with the valves, and the plumbing I have in the overflow, I can not move. I did use unions, but you can't pull the union through the 1-3/4" hole. I have two on order from Amazon slated to arrive Tuesday. So, at bare minimum, I can't refill the tank until Tuesday. But this should give me the chance to really think through my hardscape and take my time.

I am running to the big box store today to get all of the PVC I need to redo everything, again...
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post #5 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-15-2018, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
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The tank is upstairs! I have all of my eco back in, and I threw everything in there, and actually sort of like it. It's essentially a low wall splitting the tank in half length-wise made up of petrified wood. And then all of my driftwood. Only plant life is anubias nana petite & bonsai, and willow moss.

My current planting plan:
Monte Carlo carpet in the front
Cyperus Helferi in the two back corners
Hygrophila corymbosa siamensis - middle background
Blyxa aubertii - plant in between the two stumps on the left, and in front of the overflow
Pigmy Chain Sword - the rest of the middle-ground on the left hand side of the tank, and mixed in with blyxa japonica, and s. repens
Alternanthera reinecki - will plant this near the large piece of driftwood on the right, kind of as a focal point for the tank
Pogostemon helferi to fill in the rest of the right mid-ground. I am determined to get this bugger to grow this time. I have tried twice, and it melted both times.
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post #6 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-17-2018, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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So tonight, with the help of some very large furniture sliders, we are going to attempt to "slide" the tank to the new spot. Hopefully we can get it to move without having to resort to taking out all the gravel. While the joists will be parallel, they only span 5' at this spot. The fireplace is to the right of the tank, and to the left of the tank is an I-beam, with the support column very close to where the tank is. You can jump all you want on this part of my floor and it is solid as a rock. Most of my floor is a bit bouncy, this spot feels like walking on concrete. Should be a very solid spot for this tank.

I finally received the new bulkheads last night, and once the tank is moved tonight I plan on starting to plumb the whole thing. I have to make another trip to Lowe's and get one more true union ball valve, as I forgot that it would be really nice to have one on the return to facilitate even easier maintenance on the pump. I do have threaded connections to the pump, but the union will make it that much easier, plus allow me to close the line during maintenance, versus having a reverse siphon occur. Since the back of the tank will be sitting in front of a door opening, and I have three curious hooligans (aka cats), I plan on getting a 4'x3' piece of plywood, painting it to match, and screwing it into the back of the tank stand. I plan to make about a 6"x6" opening for my plumbing, and powercord access, plus to allow the stand to breathe a little bit.

All of my plants should be arriving tomorrow, so I plan on cementing all of the pvc tonight, sanding it, masking the threaded ends and spraying the portion that goes up to the tank black. Got Krylon Fusion, so we will see how it does.
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post #7 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-18-2018, 05:45 AM Thread Starter
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So the furniture sliders were a no go. Ended up having to empty everything out to get the tank to a low enough weight we could move it.

The new spot, is dare I say perfect. You can jump up and down in front of the tank and it doesn’t budge. We are no longer worried about floor issues down the road. Granted it is sitting parallel but a 5’ span is pretty well perfect for a 4’ tank. Fireplace on one end and I beam underneath on the other end. I measured so it is spanning the two joists.

I dry fit all the plumbing tonight and will glue tomorrow. Plants should be arriving tomorrow as well.

Took the blank slate opportunity to rescape the tank. Made two “terraces” and removed a lot of driftwood. I like it a lot better. I should be able to get some of the stems growing in front of the overflow to “cover” most of it. Had one heck of a time trying to get the old roots off and failed miserably.

Also tested my sump, which is showing about 20ppm of nitrates. Hopefully will mean I’ll be clear to add some inhabitants in the coming weeks. Was worried it might recycle, but even with all of the decomposing pellets I threw in there Saturday, 0ppm ammonia and nitrites.
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post #8 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-19-2018, 04:18 AM Thread Starter
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Tank is filled! Sort of... my plumbing work fit perfectly, which shocks me considering I had two of my hooligan kittens playing with the couplings. Letting it sit overnight and then testing it. Tank is also still level and you can play leapfrog in front of it with no bounce or deflection from the floor.

My plants arrived today and while some looked excellent, others look worse for the wear. First time ordering from the site I got them from. But the guy was generous with the amount of stems so hopefully they kick back to life soon when I get my CO2 hooked up tomorrow.

I always forget how large this tank is. Big box of plants looks like nothing in this guy. Monte Carlo cooperated nicely, but I really need to invest in a nice long set of tweezers. I end up half inside of the tank trying to plant things.

Plan on stopping by a few LFS this weekend to hunt out some nice Java Ferns, and get some more stems. Not sure what, but I need some more dark green in the tank. Hopefully can get a better idea of where I am at if the plants pick themselves up.

I did end up splitting up everything better and organizing things more following this picture.

Any good suggestions for some tall dark stems? I want to fill out the left hand side with something to block out the ugly overflow.
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post #9 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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The tank is running!

I accidentally forget to cement the repair coupling to my return so there is a very small drip but with it sitting directly above the sump I’ll repair this next water change. Return plumbing has zero leaks which thrills me. Was most worried about this since but no leaks at all. I need to adjust the return nozzles slightly since the surface agitation is a bit much but otherwise magically they are in a perfect spot, along with the power head to have everything slightly swaying. The flow is a LOT stronger with the hard pvc. The flex vinyl line I was only able to get in 3/4” but with the 1” PVC-even with the elbows, the return is really cranking.

I just have to be super mindful of the reverse siphon when I adjust the nozzles. I don’t like to rely on a check valve or siphon break. The sump on this tank is well sized so I prefer to just have my return nozzles placed so that the sump can handle everything siphoning back down along with the overflow. More peace of mind IMO.

I have the CO2 cranking in hopes of getting these sad plants to come back. Plan on picking up a drop checker today to see how high I can get it up. I don’t have my sump sealed but I have the return lines go down very far down into the sump so there is minimal surface agitation. Also hope to find some more stems. Not sure what yet but I need a lot more plant mass in this tank.
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post #10 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-20-2018, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
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Oops forgot to attach a photo!
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post #11 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-21-2018, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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The tank has some life in it! It was testing for 0ppm Ammonia, 0ppm Nitrite, and 10ppm of Nitrate yesterday so my hope is that it stayed cycled through the move. I had a HOB on the sump for the week leading up to fill time. I did dump 3 bottles of tetra safe start in today just in case, but the first inhabitants - 8 Odessa Barbs are pretty hardy so I should be okay!
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post #12 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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I started my experimental light period on Friday. Plan on taking daily notes regarding algae growth and any changes I make to see how long of a viewing period I can squeeze out without an algae bloom. Right now there is zero algae. None on the glass either. Aside from my one nerite there is no clean up crew of any sort in the tank. Curious to see what algae growth is like by the time Saturday (W.C. Day).

The Monte Carlo is really surprising me. Lots of runners with new immersed growth too despite melting of the emersed growth. I should’ve used this plant ages ago instead of fighting with HC. Now with all 5 T5s on for my “growing light” period, I am seeing some pearling out of it as well. Same with the mystery plant from my LFS. Lots of growth out of that already for two days, going on three in the tank. Roots are spreading on the alternantha reineckii and Pygmy chain sword too. Still waiting on a miracle for the other melting plants in the tank.

Monitoring ammonia very closely to ensure tank doesn’t recycle, but it’s still at 0. The barbs are incredibly active and coloring up quickly.
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post #13 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-22-2018, 07:00 PM
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Nice start to the tank.

With T5hO x 5 you have a lot of light.

You'll need to dial in CO2 and ferts right away if you are running all of them.

Good luck and looking forward to seeing where this goes.
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post #14 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-23-2018, 06:31 PM Thread Starter
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New stems have really started to take off. And the barbs have colored up beautifully. I have two floaters again along with a power head that needs cleaning desperately, but I am pleasantly surprised at the growth I am getting.

Also starting to see some signs off life from one of the Blyxa Auberti. I am starting to think the mystery plant is a ludwigia of some sort, just never seen it with such thick stems - and leggy old growth.

CO2 levels are a work in progress. It’s slowly being cranked higher day by day.

Fert wise just dosing EI. I am going off of my old notes I made regarding ferts. I go heavy on KNO3 and K2SO4. Always had potassium deficiencies in the past.
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post #15 of 74 (permalink) Old 10-25-2018, 04:05 AM Thread Starter
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Well I am fairly convinced at this point that the mystery plant is a ludwigia species, and while it’s growing like mad, holy deficiencies. I was expecting algae issues with the long light cycle, but instead I’ve got nutrient deficiencies all over the new growth. I don’t even know where to start with this one.

My nitrates are very high (between 40-80ppm) so I cant believe that’s it. While I haven’t checked the tank water, last week when I checked the tap my calcium was at 45ppm and magnesium 28ppm. I am dosing a bit higher than the recommended EI doses for a 120 gallon tank, but I am wondering what the tank is lacking.

Current doses:
3 times a week:
1-1/2tsp KN03
1 tsp K2SO4
1/2 tsp KH2PO4

Opposite days:
1/2 tsp Plantex (csm+b)
I also dose Seachem Aquavitro Iron (7ml - 1/2 the dose for this tank) when I top off mid week and following water changes.

If someone could identify the deficiencies going on that would be great. The old growth looks terrible (larger leaves) but I knew that when I got the stems at a bargain. The new growth is my concern.
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