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post #106 of 126 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
OK putting my judge goggles on:

First off, Dutch aquascaping is far harder then anyone can imagine. Having a vision is one thing, but everything actually coming together as you envisioned it is another story. The masters of this art are true masters, the more time I spend looking at pictures of these guys tanks the more I am in aw of what they have actually accomplished.

I have spent hours sitting in front of my tank mentally moving things around and envisioning what it would look like if I move this here or move that there. Some of your ideas have crossed my mind, Wisteria being one of them. You mentioned old school Dutch masters, that is one thing I have noticed when looking at photos of TRUE Dutch tanks, most use this plant somewhere in their layout. Before I planted the trip. japan, I considered moving the Wisteria to back left corner and having it curve to the front left of the tank, just like you mentioned to do on the right side.

I really appreciate you taking the time to put 'your judges goggles on'.. Having another set of eyes look at the tank really helps. I'm going to sit in front of the tank (again) tonight and disgust your comments.
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post #107 of 126 (permalink) Old 11-29-2018, 09:03 PM
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If anyone has any suggestion or comments, please fell free to throw your two cents out there.

I only have 1 suggestion... take the y out of your thread title... itís looking pretty Dutch to me.


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Fluval EDGE slightly modded, low tech
3+ gallon (40 x 16 x 20.5 cm) aquatic soil, low-tech
Fluval spec V (sitting in a box)
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post #108 of 126 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 08:45 AM
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Nice read. I definitely have some inspiration now stepping into a high tech setup.

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post #109 of 126 (permalink) Old 12-01-2018, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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I only have 1 suggestion... take the y out of your thread title... it’s looking pretty Dutch to me.
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Maybe one of these days.......



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Nice read. I definitely have some inspiration now stepping into a high tech setup.

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post #110 of 126 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Nothing to crazy to update.

Still not happy with the layout, I need to figure out some mid ground plants. I moved the R. Mac forward and to the right more. Started the 'street' of difformis in the front right and have it trailing to the back right, we'll see how it fills in. I'm thinking once it starts to fill in, it will crowd out the sedoides and I'll have to remove it. Started to expand the grouping of 53b so I can eventually move it off center, either to right or left we'll see once I remove the curly what looks better.
Still need to figure out the left side, it currently sucks ass! I haven't moved the 'curly' out since I have no where to put it. I was able to sell a little and offered a some for free on my local forum, no takers. It'll be a shame but next step is to bin it.....
Pogo E. seems to be coming around, new tops are not stunted. There maybe hope for this plant after all. Moss walls are really starting to take off, a few bare areas that I will have fill in once I take them out for a trimming.

On another note, I spent a couple hours messing around with different bulb combinations. I have pictures of each combo but can't remember which picture goes with which combo. Going to mess around with them again on the weekend, this time I will actually take a picture of the bulb combo along with a full tank shot so I can compare them. Burr was kind enough to give me some suggestion and look at the FTS and give feed back. We both agreed that the moss walls really make it tough to find the right combination. If you try and highlight the back moss wall the rest of the tank is too green and washed out, on the reverse if you try and highlight the foreground plants the back wall is basically blacked out.

This is the only combo I actually took a picture of the bulbs and the tank itself. First shot is with all bulbs on, I love the look of the back moss wall but the rest of the tank is crap. For shats and giggles I took one with the 420 and 633 on, reds are popp'n!

Front to Back- PowerVeg FS UV, PowerVeg 633, PowerVeg 420 and another PowerVeg FS UV


All Bulbs


633 and 420 only


Just a random FTS from last night, I believe bulbs are 420, Superflora, FS UV and 633
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post #111 of 126 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 04:12 PM
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Wow, there is a lot of light in the second picture!
Have you ever measured par?
You could try FS UV rear to highlight the moss wall and a 3000k or 4000k in front.
Or (front to back):
Flora
420
633
FS uv
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post #112 of 126 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 05:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by AgMa View Post
Wow, there is a lot of light in the second picture!
Have you ever measured par?
You could try FS UV rear to highlight the moss wall and a 3000k or 4000k in front.
Or (front to back):
Flora
420
633
FS uv
The above is very close if not what you see in the last FTS shot in the post above.

I did some quick Par reading a month or so back. PAR reading where in and around 120 at sub with the following combination of bulbs.
F to B 6400K, 633, 420 and 3000k

I would think the combo from the post above would be very similar.

Here is the post where I test PAR.

EDIT: The last FTS is actually a Purple Plus, Flora, 633, FS UV. Front to Back
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post #113 of 126 (permalink) Old 12-05-2018, 10:57 PM
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Always love the shots with different combinations of bulbs.

Sometimes folks are debating camera settings, but the color of the light makes a huge difference, as you just demonstrated.

And I do see how getting the right color on that moss can be a trick. I remember Joe spent quite a bit of time getting the right combo when he put his in.

All in all the tank is looking great to me. Sometimes we are our own worst critics.
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post #114 of 126 (permalink) Old 12-06-2018, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
Always love the shots with different combinations of bulbs.

Sometimes folks are debating camera settings, but the color of the light makes a huge difference, as you just demonstrated.

And I do see how getting the right color on that moss can be a trick. I remember Joe spent quite a bit of time getting the right combo when he put his in.

All in all the tank is looking great to me. Sometimes we are our own worst critics.
Thanks Greegz.

I am next in line to get the local clubs Apogee MQ-510 PAR Meter, the same one I used to measure PAR in the 75 Weed Farm about a year or so ago. I signed up about 4 months ago and just got emailed Monday to say if it returned on time I can come pick it up on Saturday.

Anyways, I plan to spend a good amount of time playing with bulb combinations. I'll capturing what it looks with an unaltered picture and get some PAR reading for each combination while I'm at it. Probably a good thing to have documented for future reference.

I'm been thinking about selling my current six bulb Tek fixture that I use on the 75 and purchasing the same fixture I am using for the rimless but in a six bulb unit. Not that I need anymore PAR but it would be cool to see how things look with different six bulb combinations compared to four bulbs.
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post #115 of 126 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 01:28 AM Thread Starter
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Found this interesting so I thought I'd share.

The other day I decided to move my filter outlets, just because.

Before the move the left side (Co2 output) outflow was directed to the front and center of the tank aimed upward to give some good surface agitation.
The right side was aimed right across the back of the tank, again aimed at the surface to create good surface agitation.

Basically what I did was was lower the left side output which created no surface agitation at all. The right output was also aimed at the front/center of the tank with very minimal surface agitation.

The following day I had to add a good 3/4" of water to the tank which reduced the surface movement on the right side even more. Anyways I had a look at my Apex graph and was surprised to see how moving the output nozzles effect my Co2 levels and my off gassed Co2 levels.

The first hand drawn red line on the left is when I moved the the output nozzles. The second red line is when I added the water which reduced surface movement even more. The Graph speaks for it self how surface agitation effects your Co2 levels. By reducing the surface from added the extra water dropped my Co2 from 6.33 to about 6.18 and of course the reverse when it came to how much Co2 was off gassed over night. Normally my pH off gases to about 7.8 it only got as high as 6.9 last night. Makes you go hmmmmm.

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post #116 of 126 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 01:46 AM
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Interesting chart and post.

As expected, less surface agitation = less off gassing. The graph is a great illustration of how that works.

But here's the thing some may need to consider. In a heavily stocked tank like mine, oxygen levels are very important. If I do the same with my tank, fish go to the surface pretty quick. Bows like an oxygen rich environment, and are sensitive to low levels.

And even more interesting will be to see how the plants like it. Will less oxygen affect them in any way? I have no clue but will be interested to see what happens.


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post #117 of 126 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 01:46 AM
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I was doing the same thing today as I refilled the co2. Having a sump there are more areas that I can adjust but I am amazed how small of a change impacts the ph. Having a ph monitor or controller to read .01 increments really opens your eyes to how the flow through a system affects the co2.


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post #118 of 126 (permalink) Old 12-07-2018, 02:28 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
And even more interesting will be to see how the plants like it. Will less oxygen affect them in any way? I have no clue but will be interested to see what happens.
Plants are not going to find out, things are back to how they were before. I like seeing the consistent up and down of my pH cycle.

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Originally Posted by Hendy8888 View Post
I was doing the same thing today as I refilled the co2. Having a sump there are more areas that I can adjust but I am amazed how small of a change impacts the ph. Having a ph monitor or controller to read .01 increments really opens your eyes to how the flow through a system affects the co2.
Yup doesn't take much to effect your Co2.

Having these types of 'toys' are not needed, but why not! Its kinda cool to have it keep track of tank details. I probably would have never seen this if I was using my old pH monitor that didn't data log. I have yet to set it up as a controller, I'll try it one of these days.
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post #119 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-11-2019, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Ya, ya, Its been over a month since I last posted something. Nothing really new and busy with xmas and all.

Thinks are still rolling along, plants don't stop growing. Its busy times like xmas when you start to wonder, what the hell am I thinking have 4 tanks plus an experimental emersed set-up (more on this when I have time) to take care of.

Just finished a trim and water change on the tank so don't mind all the bubbles. Still need to trim down the Ambulia, the R.Mac is not making the colour cut for me so it will probably be replaced with some L. palustrus, which will be much more of a focal point. I had to hack the crap out of the Nymphoides hydrophylla 'Taiwan', it was so out of control. That plus the difformis on that side of the tank is a maintenance nightmare! The moss wall is also driving me nuts, my crappy sawing skills are starting to show. I find big clumps of moss just floating around the tank, because they fall off the wall. Anyways a quick FTS for you guys.




I mentioned the moss wall driving me nut. I did a little experiment where I sandwiched some moss between two panels of plastic mess and throw it in weed farm. Low and behold it grew very nice and the best part is does not fall out at all...... Of course it grows a lot slower, but it will be so worth it in the long run. So this is what I will be doing with the moss wall in the rimless in the coming weeks.



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post #120 of 126 (permalink) Old 01-12-2019, 12:36 AM Thread Starter
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Looking at the above photo, here are my off the cuff remarks to myself!

-I need to get rid of the P. erectus in the back left corner. The sword just blends into the background, the ambulia behind it would make it stand up more.

-Other then colour the Persicaria sp. 'Kawagoeanum' and '53b' are way to similar in texture. What to do, what to do!

-R.mac does not have enough contrast, L.palustris would definitely stand out in the spot. (Photo is with lots of red light and makes other things look like crap)

-Maybe allow Hydrocotyle sp."Japan" to spread more to right and a little closer to the Lobelia.

-Not sure about the right side, but something has to change.... If I remove the ambulia, make the difformis group bigger.
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