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post #76 of 114 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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@Discusluv I'm not at all well-versed in medicating issues, and have managed for the last few years to avoid medications outside of meth. blue.

We'll see how they fare, my concern is that there is no way for me to remove all shrimp and snails and the resultant ammonia spike from a full dose killing all leftover inverts will do more harm than good.

I trust the advice as the person giving it has been keeping fish to a very high standard for over 50 years, taking part in breeding programs etc. so will give this a go and see. I'm not hugely concerned about the majority of the CPDs right now as they're maturing well and behaviour doesn't seem to have been impacted, but would obviously like to get this sorted asap.

I'd ask for other recommendations as you're very experienced in these matters, but the availability of medications in UK vs US is just so different. Really appreciate you commenting though and would apprectiate any thoughts of course

Edit: Fairly sure that I saw an endler pass a worm earlier. Disgusting but a) shows that there is a parasite issue and b) the medication is at least somewhat working
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post #77 of 114 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 04:01 PM
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Good news that medicating is working.

Troubles aside, I really love the jungle-ish, natural look of your tank. It doesn't look overdone or forced in any way.
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post #78 of 114 (permalink) Old 08-03-2019, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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@somewhatshocked thank you! I'm not sure I know enough about the theories behind aquascaping to make things look forced haha

__________________________________________________ __________

Quick update while I'm here:

Summer is a very busy time for me work-wise so haven't done much outside of a big trim around mid-July and the above medication. W/Cs happening whenever I get a day off, so every 5-7 days. Have increased the amount of water changed though and all seems well.

Moved the heater from the left-hand side to the right side as the number of plants was starting to cause warm spots.

The badis hasn't been bothering anyone recently, but I'm still keeping an eye on things.

Turns out that I do in fact have at least 4 otos, see if you can spot them below (I'd like to call this "Spoto the oto")



Shrimp population is bouncing back (for now.) No idea how many are in the tank now, but I think I lost 50% of those thrown in after hastily emptying the Spec V. Have seen a reasonable number of berried females and the odd shrimplet here and there though, so who knows. Colours include black and brown (as below), blue, red, red/carbon rili and clear/wild. Hopefully won't lose the lot during this medication, but I have to admit that the fish are the priority.



And a "creative" shot I took the other evening after a drink (or three)


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post #79 of 114 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 06:51 PM Thread Starter
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Not the best update, but I'm a big believer in updating journals when things go wrong as well as well, well.

Euthanised a CPD last night, the only one to have not improved since treating the tank. Symptoms started as what looked like a missing scale and so I gave the fish the benefit of the doubt, did an extra water change, and did a second round of slightly stronger dosing. Wound continued to be minor until suddenly progressing over 48 hours, and the fish began showing signs of stress.

Photo shortly before euthanasia:


No other fish showing any symptoms, and no fuzz, parasites, or discoloration were around the hole. It's got me paranoid though, so keeping a close eye.

Parameters:
0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, ~5 Nitrate (Have been doing larger water changes, haven't been dosing ferts during the issues, and tank is an understocked jungle right now. Shook the sh*t out of the nitrate test & bottle)
pH between 6.8 and 7, 2dkH, 4-5dgH, temp 24C.

All other CPDs showing natural behaviour, including the beginning of what looks like spawning. Might separate some to breed in the 5g after all this flat moving is done and if all is well.



In happier news, look at the difference in my badis! Very very attached, can't believe how big she's grown.

Pic taken 22nd Feb:


And pic taken 8th August:


P.S I know the tank is an algae farm, just really don't have time to be dealing with algae right now. The shrimp seem to enjoy it at least.

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post #80 of 114 (permalink) Old 08-24-2019, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Thelongsnail View Post
Not the best update, but I'm a big believer in updating journals when things go wrong as well as well, well.

Euthanised a CPD last night, the only one to have not improved since treating the tank. Symptoms started as what looked like a missing scale and so I gave the fish the benefit of the doubt, did an extra water change, and did a second round of slightly stronger dosing. Wound continued to be minor until suddenly progressing over 48 hours, and the fish began showing signs of stress.

Photo shortly before euthanasia:


No other fish showing any symptoms, and no fuzz, parasites, or discoloration were around the hole. It's got me paranoid though, so keeping a close eye.

Parameters:
0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite, ~5 Nitrate (Have been doing larger water changes, haven't been dosing ferts during the issues, and tank is an understocked jungle right now. Shook the sh*t out of the nitrate test & bottle)
pH between 6.8 and 7, 2dkH, 4-5dgH, temp 24C.

All other CPDs showing natural behaviour, including the beginning of what looks like spawning. Might separate some to breed in the 5g after all this flat moving is done and if all is well.



In happier news, look at the difference in my badis! Very very attached, can't believe how big she's grown.

Pic taken 22nd Feb:


And pic taken 8th August:


P.S I know the tank is an algae farm, just really don't have time to be dealing with algae right now. The shrimp seem to enjoy it at least.
Thanks for the update!
I love your tank--- it is one of my favorites on the forum because of its natural ( as opposed to stylized) beauty. I enjoy it very much to see pictures!


Speaking of scale injuries--- I had a gorgeous male African tetra, a hemigammopetersius pulcher, that got a scale injury while sparring with subordinate males. With these fish the alpha male will get this bright copper colored area around its tail. It is really something to behold! All subordinate males will have a much duller ( more subdued) copper color; and the female, in this same area, has a light, barely there golden-yellow.

Anyways, I noticed a couple damaged scales, but the male was still eating and not at all expressing internal bacterial issues as a result. Next day, looked at it and had been covered over with fungus ( bacteria). Scooped him out and put in quarantine and added Paraguard for benefit of acriflavine ( and other antibacterial/anti fungal proprieties. By evening began to fade, and by next morning dead. It was very fast. From external to septic. It was strange to me because the normal signs of whether so serious that antibiotics were needed were not there. If I would have known had become septic would have used kanamycin. But...

This fish was worth saving because was a wild-caught, very rare African tetra.

Sometimes these illnesses defy logic.



Next day, another subordinate male made himself alpha of the group and his formerly subdued copper tail became just as brilliant as the one that had died.





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post #81 of 114 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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Update: Things Are Continuing To Go Wrong.

All CPDs have been removed from the tank after another started to show strange symptoms: this time, a lesion that gradually go larger until the entire area pineconed. Eventually the fish passed; I would have euthanised but a) it wasn't being bothered by the others, and b) I needed to know if it would rupture. It didn't rupture, but I could still possibly believe that it was related to the last CPD I euthanised.

Enter the world's worst diagnostic photo:



That's not going to help, but the issue was identical to the photos found in this thread here:

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfis...-danio.413084/

I've found several other threads on the net with identical issues and nobody seems to know what it is. Thankfully, it appears to be species-specific at least.

I finally got to do a proper headcount of the CPDs upon removal and only had 11, 10 now that I've lost the one with the lesion. They're in the dennerle tank going through at least 1 course of strong anti-parasitic treatment. All the others seem to be fine so far.

Here's the tank on my lovely new (and huge!) desk - for reference, than tank is 15 US gallons and lengthways. Ignore the computer, that's not mine.



Thankfully everyone else in the main tank is doing well, and I finally had the chance to have a trim the other day. Wish I'd got a before-shot, but the algae was far too embarrassing. Here's the after-shot anyway

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post #82 of 114 (permalink) Old 09-06-2019, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Thelongsnail View Post
Update: Things Are Continuing To Go Wrong.

All CPDs have been removed from the tank after another started to show strange symptoms: this time, a lesion that gradually go larger until the entire area pineconed. Eventually the fish passed; I would have euthanised but a) it wasn't being bothered by the others, and b) I needed to know if it would rupture. It didn't rupture, but I could still possibly believe that it was related to the last CPD I euthanised.

Enter the world's worst diagnostic photo:



That's not going to help, but the issue was identical to the photos found in this thread here:

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfis...-danio.413084/

I've found several other threads on the net with identical issues and nobody seems to know what it is. Thankfully, it appears to be species-specific at least.

I finally got to do a proper headcount of the CPDs upon removal and only had 11, 10 now that I've lost the one with the lesion. They're in the dennerle tank going through at least 1 course of strong anti-parasitic treatment. All the others seem to be fine so far.

Here's the tank on my lovely new (and huge!) desk - for reference, than tank is 15 US gallons and lengthways. Ignore the computer, that's not mine.



Thankfully everyone else in the main tank is doing well, and I finally had the chance to have a trim the other day. Wish I'd got a before-shot, but the algae was far too embarrassing. Here's the after-shot anyway

The tank looks beautiful and lush!

Sorry to hear about the CPDs. I used to have some but never had any luck with them and I lost them one by one, although for me I think it was a temperature issue since I don't have a chiller on my tank.

How warm and hard is your water? I think they prefer cooler temperatures and moderately hard water. You did mention previously that their requirements match your water though... Could these strange marks be injuries from fights or something?
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post #83 of 114 (permalink) Old 09-11-2019, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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@chicken.nublet temp is 24C, water cooling isn't so much of an issue over here! pH is just under 7, kH 2, gH 6, so on the lower bounds but definitely within parameters.

Just came home to find that I've lost my largest male at some point today, main symptom was a sort of stick/lump coming out from under the jaw. There was a red patch on one side, but I think the poor thing had got stuck to the filter when it was weak. It had been fine last night when I checked before bed. So done with these. Water change once they're done eating and then another round of dewormer.

I think I'm just going to keep the CPDs in the dennerle tank and move the badis, cory & some cherry shrimp over and gradually drop the temp to ~22C. My mum has requested the rest of the endlers, which l'm fine with as the local tap water down south is better suited to them anyway and I'm keeping them in softer water than they'd like even with Aquadur added.

This will leave me with a 25 US gallon tank with nothing but otos, snails, and shrimp in. Does anyone have any suggestions on something that will suit the tank? I just want something for soft-ish water (although I can adapt that to the fish), that doesn't often jump, temp around 25C, and HARDY. I'm so done with not being able to keep the simplest things alive when there's people out there with 10 gallon no-water change "ecosystem" tanks filled with tiger barbs, malawis, and shovelnoses or whatever.

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post #84 of 114 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 08:44 AM
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@chicken.nublet temp is 24C, water cooling isn't so much of an issue over here! pH is just under 7, kH 2, gH 6, so on the lower bounds but definitely within parameters.

Just came home to find that I've lost my largest male at some point today, main symptom was a sort of stick/lump coming out from under the jaw. There was a red patch on one side, but I think the poor thing had got stuck to the filter when it was weak. It had been fine last night when I checked before bed. So done with these. Water change once they're done eating and then another round of dewormer.

I think I'm just going to keep the CPDs in the dennerle tank and move the badis, cory & some cherry shrimp over and gradually drop the temp to ~22C. My mum has requested the rest of the endlers, which l'm fine with as the local tap water down south is better suited to them anyway and I'm keeping them in softer water than they'd like even with Aquadur added.

This will leave me with a 25 US gallon tank with nothing but otos, snails, and shrimp in. Does anyone have any suggestions on something that will suit the tank? I just want something for soft-ish water (although I can adapt that to the fish), that doesn't often jump, temp around 25C, and HARDY. I'm so done with not being able to keep the simplest things alive when there's people out there with 10 gallon no-water change "ecosystem" tanks filled with tiger barbs, malawis, and shovelnoses or whatever.
Don't be too hard on yourself, I had a really [censored][censored][censored][censored] time with CPDs myself. Do you have any plans with the Dennerle tank after the next round of meds?

As for new stock, I think a big group of glowlight danios will look stunning in your absolutely gorgeous tank. From what I've seen they are incredibly active so dunno if they might add too much movement in your tank. Not too sure about jumping. Goldring danios are another beautiful little fish that you could consider.

Since your tank is fairly big maybe you could try some of the larger bodied tetras? I think lemon tetras would look amazing swimming among those plants.

I haven't had any experience keeping what I suggested but I think they should be fairly hardy.

Good luck with finding something you like for the 25 and hope you don't lose your remaining CPDs!
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post #85 of 114 (permalink) Old 09-12-2019, 12:50 PM
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i agree with @chicken.nublet about the CPDs. I never buy them anymore since the stock in LFS always looks bad. Don't know if you want something more exotic, but Harlequin Rasboras have always been bullet proof for me and they school nicely. Our water is very similar.
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post #86 of 114 (permalink) Old 09-15-2019, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
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@chicken.nublet @Asteroid thanks for the suggestions and commiserations, much appreciated The danios are known jumpers, but I'm thinking of changing up the scape and getting a lid made anyway. I've also been thinking about harlequins, maybe with honey gouramis or something similarly nice
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

I wrote out a big post about changes in the tanks, but the website timed out and lost it. Not writing it out again but the summary is as follow:

- Slowly tearing apart bits of the main tank for the fluval flex and dennerle tank. The main tank is just a total algae trap, so I may as well move towards a scape/stocking that appreciates it.
- Started work on the flex yesterday and it's looking much better. The badis, surviving CPDs, and otos will be moved here.
- The betta will be moved from the flex to the dennerle tank. It will have a significantly lower water line, which I think will be appreciated by the betta. Plans include heavy planting with mainly crypts, and emergent plants grown on wood under the filter stream - similar to my current flex set up.
- Once the endlers go down to my parents', the tank will be empty and ready for a new project. Current ideas range from a shoal of pygmy puffers (unlikely), to a general community (more likely), or one of various ideas on a temperate Taiwanese biotope (most likely). Although I've put a lot of thought into these plans, they're on hold for a bit just now.

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post #87 of 114 (permalink) Old 10-06-2019, 05:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quick update:

All 3 tanks are in a “transitionary period” (e.g. they’re unfinished and terrible) right now BUT I have some good news.

My flatmate very kindly “saved” some endler fry by putting them into the dennerle tank, which was actually intended for the betta. I decided not to worry and to just let the endlers grow out for a month and get the scape to my liking during that time.

But today some more titchy tiny fry have appeared! Process of elimination would imply that they’re CPDs and they match photos of young fry I’ve seen previously. Hoping to raise at least a few and pad out my adult CPD group, as I’m now down to 6. Hoping that this is a bit of a turning point in all of this...
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post #88 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 05:37 PM Thread Starter
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Just a hello to say that the tanks are still kicking!

The main tank is just being used to grow plants out right now, ready for tank re-jigging in the new year. It now features a horrible coconut hut, seen below:



I now have a total of 4 adult CPDs, having lost one as recently as a fortnight ago. Identical symptoms to those previously listed and I can't seem to find a trigger for it. BUT 5 of the danio fry have survived and are now around 1-1.5cm long. We'll see if they suffer the same issues as the original group.

The grow-out tank is a total state but the crypts are doing well floating. I also purchased some mystery emergent plants; anyone have an ID?



Incidentally, I purchased a group of 3 "captive-bred amanos" from a local chain store recently. I'm very skeptical about them being true amanos, but the shop also had some of the first UK-bred Spotted Congo puffers (Tetraodon Shoutedeni) so who knows. Either way, they're showing some interesting colouring:



The shrimps were quite blue at time of purchase and are currently kept in a low-light 15G, at 26C, pH 7, gH 6-7. I'm wondering if the colours are down to selective breeding, or whether they're down to environmental factors such as light/temp/avoiding predation from the betta. I've heard that it can also be down to diet, but the colour has deepened since purchase rather than faded.

Tank here - you may recognise the left-hand piece of wood/fern from the main tank. The rampant hair algae disappeared after moving to lower light



All I need to do now is wait for the danio fry to grow out so that I can re-scape all three tanks. What is this hobby though, if not a lesson in a patience?

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post #89 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-11-2019, 06:06 PM
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Glad to see it's still going, sad about the danios though. Hope your fry do well!


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post #90 of 114 (permalink) Old 12-24-2019, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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The endlers were moved down South last week - all doing well bar one female.

Here they are in the new tank:



More tank updates to come, just waiting for everything to settle. I think I'll make separate journals for each tank
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