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post #16 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-05-2018, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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it feels ready....


I've been running this tank for about three months now. My youngest, and my husband, keep asking me when I'm going to get the angelfish. I'm pleased with the tangle of pothos roots, the arrangement of sticks (more or less) and how the tank performs with leaf litter- it continues to have only 5-10 nitrates at the end of each week, and the kuhlis seem to kick up enough mulm out from under the leaf litter when they energetically go searching for food, to keep it picked up by the filters. I would still rather wait for the apple snail to meet its natural end, although aqadvisor tells me I am totally fine with the stocking level. I've found some nice young 'wild type' silvers at the lfs next town over...


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post #17 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-06-2018, 12:04 AM
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Subscribed to your thread and looking forward to see your angels
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post #18 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-07-2018, 02:26 AM
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nice set up, you are very patient... I would never be able to wait that long!!!

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post #19 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 08:19 PM Thread Starter
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here's my angels!


sorry not a good pic- I had the lights dim while floating the bag- tomorrow (after they have rested in the dark) will try for something better. They're so little!
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post #20 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-11-2018, 08:45 PM
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sorry not a good pic- I had the lights dim while floating the bag- tomorrow (after they have rested in the dark) will try for something better. They're so little!


Very nice color and shape to the black & silver stripe angel. Good choice.
Make sure to feed lots of protein ( I use freeze dried black worms w/ spirulina for my Discus — Angels and Discus juveniles have very similar needs) and do small feedings 2-3 x daily for best health and growth of juveniles. Also, while young their immune systems are more fragile- I would shoot for minimum of 1 @ 50% water change weekly until Sub-adult size.

If you would like a good source for the freeze- dried black worm cubes / with spirulina let me know— it is an excellent staple food for juveniles.


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180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #21 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-12-2018, 01:15 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the pointers, @Discusluv, I haven't kept angels in decades. Right now I have on hand to feed them: NLS pellets, Omega One betta pellets and shrimp pellets, Omega One protein formula tropical flake, live mosquito wigglers, live red worms (earthworms), Fluval bug bites, Gold Pearls (might be too small), Tetra cichlid flake. The last one looks poor quality so I think I will just compost it actually (it was given to me with a used tank I bought once). Should I not feed them the betta food? If you think this mix of foods is not good, I'll look into getting something else too like the black worms. I've read in a few places that young angels need some greens in their diet- is that why you feed them the black worms w/Spirulina?

And yes, I was planning on feeding them 3 times a day, w/50% wc each week (or 25% twice a week). The tank is still reading below 10ppm nitrates each week before I do maintenance, in fact yesterday it read zero. I think because the pothos vine have adjusted and sent their roots down.

I'm very pleased with them! I had my eye on these two particular individuals at the LFS for a while- it's not in my town so I don't frequently go there but I was very happy they were still available. I won't let myself get too attached and name them quite yet, though... . . .
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post #22 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-12-2018, 02:12 AM
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Spirulina has many benefits; too many for me to list, but here is a break down online. Ill provide link so you can read the whole article:


-Quote:the following:

"SPIRULINA ANALYSIS

Here is the general analysis of pure Spirulina Algae:

Protein: 55%- 70%
Carbohydrates: 15% - 25% (an excellent low ratio for fish)
Fats (lipids): 6% - 8%
Minerals: 6 -13%
Fiber: 8% - 10%

Natural Pigment Enhancers:

Phycocyanin (Blue): 14%
Chlorophyll (Green): 1%
Carotenoids (Orange/ Red): 47%

Important Trace Minerals (many of these are essential for proper electrolyte balance and osmotic function):

Calcium (1,315 mg/kg), Iron, Phosphorus (15,400 mg/kg), Iodine, Magnesium, Zinc, Selenium, Copper, Manganese, Chromium, Molybdenum, Sodium, Chloride, Potassium, Germanium, Boron.

Essential Amino Acids:

• ISOLEUCINE (4.130/o): Required for optimal growth, nitrogen equilibrium in the body Used to synthesize other non-essential amino acids.
• LEUCINE (5.8001o): increases muscular energy levels.
• LYSINE (4.000/o): Building block of blood antibodies, strengthens circulatory system and maintains normal growth of cells.
• METHIONINE (2.170/o): Vital lipotropic (fat and lipid metabolizing) amino acid that maintains liver health. An anti-stress factor.
• PHENYLALANINE (3.950/o): Stimulates metabolic rate.
• THREONINE (4.170/o): Improves intestinal competence and digestive assimilation.
• TRYPTOPHANE (1.1301o): Increases utilization of B vitamins, improves nerve health.
• VALINE (6.0001o): Stimulates muscle coordination.
"

Spirulina Algae (Arthrospira) | Health Information for Fish

There is also a very good study on Oscarfish.com (that I will link you to) that looked at the nutritional values of popular fish food brands and rated them from 0-6. I would look at all these brands you list above and look at how they rated in relation to other brands.

Here you go:
Fish Food Reviews

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #23 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-12-2018, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Spirulina has many benefits; too many for me to list, but here is a break down online. Ill provide link so you can read the whole article... . . .
Ah, thank you very much. Yes, I will read that info. I do have a spirulina-based food also. I'll certainly add it to the angel's diet as well.
~
That was very helpful. After reading the analysis on the oscar site, I've decided to toss some of my flake foods and buy Hikari, Zoo Med and maybe NLS Cichlid pellet instead. Disappointingly, the site doesn't analyze some of the other foods I have (gold pearls, fluval bug bites) but I can try and give those labels more scrutiny.
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Last edited by JJ09; 08-12-2018 at 10:51 AM. Reason: added last paragraph
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post #24 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-12-2018, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
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My new little angels are very skittish. I had the tank lights off and covered it with a sheet all day yesterday to keep dark. Today decided to still keep the tank light off, just ambient room light while they continue to settle in. Any movement outside the tank and they hide behind the left sponge filter. So due to the lack of lighting the photos are pretty dim.

This isn't even a full tank shot- you can see how small they are! (One of the sticks fell over from my arrangement, but I'll fix it later. Don't want to put my hands in the tank and alarm them right now).

When they do venture out from behind filter, they remain in the back of the tank behind the sticks.
Both are 'wild-type' silvers. Larger one has normal stripe pattern.

Smaller one has a very faint extra stripe on the body (disappears when the fish goes pale). Maybe a 'zebra'? I hope the little guy catches up in size to the other one.

They spend a lot of time just facing the back wall. Very timid, I guess. For now, I try to avoid making sudden moves outside the tank when I'm in that hallway, to keep from startling them. And I wanted to get in close with the camera but made myself stop hovering, let them be.

They certainly are keeping a close eye on everything around them. I fed them a bit of crushed shrimp pellet this morning, which they ate if it fell right in front of them. Several hours later I gave them live mosquito wigglers- that coaxed them out of their corner! They seemed really to like it- I saw little eager tail wiggles as bites were taken. Afterwards the smaller one was still hanging around the back of the tank when a snail fell from the surface clinging to a bit of frogbit. Snail let go of the leaf, which rose up the front tank glass. The little angel turned and zoomed quick to the front of the tank, to check out that moving leaf.
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post #25 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 01:21 AM
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45 for Angels

I have a group of Leopoldi that behave the same way. Following to learn!


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post #26 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 02:09 AM
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Ah, thank you very much. Yes, I will read that info. I do have a spirulina-based food also. I'll certainly add it to the angel's diet as well.
~
That was very helpful. After reading the analysis on the oscar site, I've decided to toss some of my flake foods and buy Hikari, Zoo Med and maybe NLS Cichlid pellet instead. Disappointingly, the site doesn't analyze some of the other foods I have (gold pearls, fluval bug bites) but I can try and give those labels more scrutiny.
NLS is an excellent brand. I feed a mixture of NLS Thera A, AlgaeMax ( spirulina based food), and Cichlid pellet tomy geophagus, bipotodoma cupidos and wavarinii, Bolivian rams. The corydoras also eat them with gusto. I still supplement their diet with the freeze-dried blackworms a few times a week. I dont feed them as much to these cichlids as I do my discus.

I also feed NLS freshwater flake because I have about 45 or so tetras in this tank.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #27 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 02:22 AM
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Eating is the best sign that your fish are healthy- the best.
I would also keep an eye out for any internal parasites/hexamita, which angels are particularly prone to.
This would be facing the back of the tank, white or stringy feces, and in more advanced cases, not eating.
From the photos, although small, they look very healthy.

Also, what is the temperature of tank?
Do you have a background on back glass? If not it may be helpful to put one on to cut down on glare, shadows of people walking by, and reflections.
I would not cover tank with a blanket, they need to get used to you. Sit in front of tank with a book, a cup of coffee etc... Angels are smart cichlids, they will get used to your movements and readily come to tank for food soon.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #28 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-13-2018, 03:41 AM Thread Starter
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Yep- they ate four times today (small amounts- shrimp pellet, live mosquito larvae, spirulina mini pellets, protein formula flake). Only on the first feeding did I deliberately let food fall to the bottom. It was pretty funny to see the kuhli loaches swarm about during the other feedings, probably frustrated they could smell the food but not find it in usual places. Evening feed I gave flake, and while the angels delicately took it from the surface, the kuhlis gradually darted around higher and higher in the tank, until a good number of them were also feeding at surface. Smart buggers.

I've been spending a good amount of time sitting in front of the tank. I just love to watch them. Already they are feeling braver.

The tank is at 78-79°, pH is 7.4. I saw them poop today and it was normal-looking.

I only had it covered the first day, because they seemed so frightened I hoped it would help them feel safe and calm while they were getting used to new surroundings. No, there's no background on the tank. I didn't really want to add one- I'll think about it though.
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Last edited by JJ09; 08-13-2018 at 03:47 AM. Reason: added last pp
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post #29 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
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angel pics!

My little angels are quickly becoming confident in their new home- out all over the tank most of the day. When I walk by they dart to the back wall, then turn and approach front again. They're already starting to realize I mean food.





They like the tangle of roots, and hang out a lot just under the surface plants


The larger, standard one seems to have something on its right side? where the lateral line goes across flank, there's a vertical mark , and viewing the fish from rear, it looks like something is on it there- torn scale? parasite? I can't tell. I hope it's not something to worry about. Maybe I should dose with something anti-parasitic.


Just eaten- slightly bulgy tummies! I've offered them nearly all the foods I have, now- and a few more are coming from online order soon. They like crushed shrimp pellets, the protein flake, bug bites, spriulina bites. They spat out betta micro pellets so I won't bother to offer that again. Ate frozen mysis/brine shrimp mix, and bloodworms- but only if those are small enough. Liked NLS pellets but I have to crush those up, the size is too large for them still. Ecstatic about live mosquito wigglers- for those they will hang around front of the tank looking for more. They also eat the Gold Pearls eagerly. I also tried giving them some very small red wigglers (from my vermicompost bin -well cleaned-) they following the twitching worms down as sank through the water column, but just stared and didn't bite.

My kuhlis go nuts when I offer food to the angels (three or four times a day right now). Once a day I deliberately drop a sinking food for them, before I feed the angels at top- that keeps the kuhlis busy down below. Tiger has figured out he can slide his body between the stem structure of frogbit and hang out at surface to find food, now. Some of them also now look for food that drops onto the anubias leaves which the angels have missed- great because their activity keeps it cleaner of debris as well. This guy moved right when I snapped the photo.

Full tank shot:
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post #30 of 153 (permalink) Old 08-16-2018, 02:49 AM Thread Starter
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Um, I think I've been overfeeding- it's hard to judge how much the little guys eat. Maybe three times is plenty, and I shouldn't give so much. Especially with the frozen foods, I'm new to using those. Water looks clear, Ammonia tests at zero and Nitrates less than 10ppm, but the larger angel I noticed today has black areas on the caudal fin edge and it looks a bit ragged in a few spots. I wonder if water quality has gone down, doing another 25% wc even though I just did one yesterday.

Good news is I looked super close when he was near the front glass (not so shy anymore!) and that mark on the flank appears to be gone now.


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Last edited by JJ09; 08-16-2018 at 02:50 AM. Reason: rephrased sentence
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