58g Hardwater setup w/sump - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-09-2016, 03:33 AM Thread Starter
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58g Hardwater setup w/sump

"My 29g low tech low maintenance shrimp tank is doing so well, let's make my life more complicated and make my RR 58g a high tech planted tank!" ... Why do I do this to myself!?

Back Story
Had this tank setup for lake tang cichlids but never got it off the ground besides some julis. Decided to move on but unsure of what I wanted to do with it. Along came a great deal from @rajah_22 for my favorite plants, crypts (and buce)! And they are hardwater lovers so decision made! I would go with a hardwater probably high tech planted tank. Only had a few days to switch the tank over and I made that even harder by choosing to use the substrate that was currently IN my 72g and put the PFS from this into the 72g. Did a 100% teardown and rebuild on both tanks, took 8 hours and I almost died! lol But the fish all did well. I placed osmocote and peat under un-rinsed mature oil-dri then layered rinsed but still used oil-dri on top to keep it a bit cleaner. 2" in front to 4" in back.

Side-note on the oil-dri. It's been submerged for over 5 years and it has retained it's firmness wonderfully!

Aged Iron Filtered Well Water
pH - 8.2
GH - ~10
KH - ~10
TDS - ~200
Iron - 0
Nitrates - 0
Phosphates - 0, maybe a trace
Manganese - 0
ORP - 255mV (not that anyone needs to know that )


Equipment Owned
58g Oceanic RR tank with matching stand
20g high sump (no baffles)
Rio 12HF pump (530GPH tested)
10lb CO2 tank (needs hydro testing and fill)
Dual stage Victor regulator
Fluval Bubble counter
Fabco NV-55 needle valve (might be broken)
DIY inline reactor with 150w Jaber heater built in
Drop checker w/ 4dkh solution
Ferts, booster, root tabs, excel etc etc

What I have ordered
2 - 36" Vivagrow 24/7 (arriving in the next week)
2 - SMS AC1000-M5 needle valves (arriving Saturday, these are backups)
1 Gallon Metricide (arriving in the next week)

What I still need
CO2 tank hydrotested and filled - Might hold off on CO2 for awhile for the sake of $$ and headaches
CO2 reactor - see above
Doser - waiting for price to come back down

9/8/2016 Update!
Plants arrived a day early so I was a bit unprepared and had NO plan for a scape (still don't and probably never will). I am using iron filtered well water which bypasses my whole house water softener. This means it's cold, between 54F and 64F so I have to put it in a barrel and warm it up before hand. Which of course was not ready today either. Anyway I got most of the crypts planted hap-hazardly leaving some space for hardscape (not pre-soaked wood ready either) and other plants.

Warning! Everything you will see in this thread will be messy and imperfect. I am not a professional!

Planting was very messy with that mature substrate underneath so I was supsried how clear it ended up being after filling! I left space for hardscape and other plants.


Hudoroi in the back and nurii and/or affinis "metallic red" in front (bag was label both?)


Few balansae in the back. I should have taken pictures of the roots on these things! Plant has 2 small leaves but a fist full of roots, crazy!


Big usteriana!


Some more nurii/affinis


Working on a couple buce sticks. No idea what I am going to do with them but had to attach them to something. No idea on the species either.



I turned the flow down a lot and will only keep the underpowered lights on for a few hours a day for at least a few days while the crypts adjust. I will add some excel but no other ferts atm. Still a lot of work to do but...LET THE MELT BEGIN! lol Roots are amazing on most of these plants so it will be fine. The nurii/affinis is the most vulnerable root wise.

Looking for ANY suggestions! Plant and fish species for hardwater, scape, co2 injection with sump, light schedule, dosing method etc.


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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-09-2016, 06:00 AM
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Looks awesome! I'll be keeping an eye on this. They should do great in your hard water. They also like plenty of flow if you can provide it. BTW, the nurii is the one with the spotted leaves and the affinis has the more solid green leaves. The affinis should turn redder under high light.


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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-09-2016, 06:45 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for clarifying! And thanks again for the awesome plants!!


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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-11-2016, 04:13 AM Thread Starter
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I got all the crypts planted (besides a bag of random I might sell/roak) and all the buce attached to some wood, that I can later attach to other wood once I figure out the hardscape. I decided to plant everything that I could positively ID and will thin it out at a later time.

I also got a rough count on the # of crypts.
17 hudoroi
50 affinis
30 nurii
13 balanse
25 usteriana
12 randoms
Total - 147! Plus several feet of Buce! No wonder my back hates me right now! lol Such a GREAT deal! So glad I decided to buy it, I was very on the fence about it since I didn't even have a tank for them, thanks for convincing me @rajah_22.

Took a poor video of the 24/7 demo on my vivagrows. Dark scenes are brighter in person and sorry about my shrimp tank light reflection.
.....I can't figure out how to embed a youtube video!
https://youtu.be/CuNWtzlI5RE?t=6s


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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-11-2016, 06:13 AM
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Don't be surprised if the Crypts melt pretty bad. They will come back just fine. Sometimes they do it. Sometimes they don't.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-11-2016, 06:38 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Belton View Post
Don't be surprised if the Crypts melt pretty bad. They will come back just fine. Sometimes they do it. Sometimes they don't.
I wouldn't be surprised at all! I expect quite a bit of melting but the roots are pretty substantial so they should make quick recoveries.


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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 09-25-2016, 05:50 AM Thread Starter
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Cutting to the chase! Crypts went through their melting phase, a little left to go still, but overall they did very well! Hudoroi was hit the hardest with about 90% melting but there is new growth on everything so I'm fine with that. The buce is actually dying back too though which I am not so fine with. Anyway, I had SO many plants I just decided to plant them all now and I can sell/roak extras at a later time so any idea of a scape went out the window! lol

Currently running the 2 vivagrow 24/7 lights at almost a complete day cycle, just switching to 3pm setting at like 2pm, working my way UP to the full cycle. Started a light fert dosing schedule with metricide, still no CO2 setup yet. Lots of tiny "bugs" floating around in the water and on the glass, you'll see them in the pictures!

FTS after a major WC and dead crypt leaf removal. Buce and wood is just kinda thrown back in there.



Hudoroi and Affinis with a couple stray Nurii


Balansae in the back and buce huddle.


Nurii in front, Usteriana in the back, random unknowns in the front right corner.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 10-15-2016, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
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Got 12 amanos, 2 died within 24 hours and one jumped recently but replacements are on the way. They were very cloudy when they came in but have cleared up most of the way and have good color now. Amanos loved crawling into the skimmer teeth so I popped some plastic mesh over it for now to stop them. Although it was amazing to watch them climb back out through the waterfall and OVER the overflow box.

One shrimp pic wouldn't upload to photobucket so it is attached.



When I got the Amanos I stopped dosing, at first for them then it was an insanely busy week with a death in the family so no ferts for 1.5 weeks and algae hit! Picture is cloudy setting on the lights, LOVE these lights!


Cleaned it up, did a water change, fixed the wood on the right that kept falling over (tucked a rock behind it) and resumed dosing the next day. I really think it was just the metricide keeping the algae at bay cause I still had plenty of nitrates and phospates when I had the algae hit.


Had one stick of buce, the one that I used super glue gel on, die almost completely. I hide it behind the good stick of buce (same buce, same wood but attached with twist tie) so it is hard to see, I'll try to get a comparision pic soon.


Besides that things are going very well! The balansae has more than double in 2.5 weeks and 1.5 of those weeks had no dosed ferts. For newly planted crypts without CO2 I think that's pretty good growth.
9/22 FTS

10/9 FTS


And look at all these baby leaves coming up still.


C. Affinis is coming in nice and red which suprised me cause my lighting is on the low end of medium (I think).




New C. nurii leaves are pretty awesome too!
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-20-2017, 02:09 AM Thread Starter
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6 Months later....

I had a lot of trouble with this website (still having some) so when I tried to update things went wrong and I got frustrated and gave up. Time to try again.

Just a quick catch up....

- Cherry shrimp weren't doing well in my 29g so I moved 4 over here and the 2 females berried and released successfully. So now I have 4 adults and a handful of subadult RCS/Sakura shrimp in here, temporarily.
- Amanos have bred non-stop with no losses, well except the what must now be millions of babies that have been born.
- After the initial crypt melt everything did GREAT but after awhile the Balansae died back and has been just hanging on for a bit now. May replace it.
- I've had some snail explosions dispite the fact that I almost never feed this tank. But it's under control now.
- Besides a few leaves that got the tiniest bit of BBA on them awhile back the only algae I have had is some brown/green glass algae. Which I am SO pleased with.
- Up to 5ml Metricide almost daily and low dosing every other day, no CO2 and still running the 24/7 cycle on the lights.

I am gonna skip all the in between pictures and just give the latest ones. I took these a bit earlier in the light cycle then I really like the look of it so it is a bit washed out. When the lights are at max the colors are completely washed out but the evening and sunrise times are great.
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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 12:23 AM
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Nice looking tank! I am getting ready to setup a 58 gallon as well. How do you feel the dimensions/footprint of the 58 work for aquascaping?
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
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Nice looking tank! I am getting ready to setup a 58 gallon as well. How do you feel the dimensions/footprint of the 58 work for aquascaping?
Thanks. I am no aquascaper but it is a little tall for my taste. I solved that (a little) with the monster Usteriana. The balansae should have helped too but ehh. I wish I could figure out how to add some tall wood in there though, since the short piece are almost completely hidden now especially.


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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 01:17 AM
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What are the crypts in the foreground? Tank looks awesome!


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using this hobby as an excuse to procrastinate
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 05:27 AM Thread Starter
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What are the crypts in the foreground? Tank looks awesome!


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Thank you. The ones to the left are c. affinis "metallic red" and to the right are c. nurii, I believe regular. Oh and the ones all the way to the right are just randoms that came in the package.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 07:33 AM
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I know you said your sump has no baffles, but I am still curious as to how it you actually have it set up, does it have columns of sponges that it passes through? Or is it just a body of water? Any chance you can post a picture of that when you get a chance?

Your tank is looking awesome!

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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-21-2017, 08:06 AM Thread Starter
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I know you said your sump has no baffles, but I am still curious as to how it you actually have it set up, does it have columns of sponges that it passes through? Or is it just a body of water? Any chance you can post a picture of that when you get a chance?

Your tank is looking awesome!
Thank you. My sump needs modifying still, which I plan to do one of these days. But right now, yes I have fairly thick 12x12 sponges (one medium grade, one fine grade) wedged in there then a bunch of pot scrubbers for bio and a blue bonded piece kinda wrapped around the pump. All very haphazardly thrown together I know. I will post pictures anyways, within a week when I clean the sump cause boy it needs it again.


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