Greggz 120G Rainbow Fish Tank (Update 5-11-2019) - Page 162 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #2416 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 02:00 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by OreoP View Post
You are the "BowMan"....hopefully this will not discourage you from replacing the ones you lost.
I am looking at this like an opportunity.

To me the Bow selection is similar to plants......a variety of colors, shapes, and sizes.

I spent some time tonight watching the tank, and am trying to solve the puzzle. I think I know where this is going. Sending some emails to some breeders that I know tonight.

Will get at least one maybe two species I have never raised to see how they develop.


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Last edited by Greggz; 05-12-2019 at 02:35 AM. Reason: typo
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post #2417 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 03:51 AM
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Sorry for the "Ich" issues @Greggz

My last issue was Columnaris about 4 years ago.
Paraguard actually cleared the issues in two treatments!

I could be very wrong but always believed Ich could exist in any tank environment.
Something changes and Ich takes the upper hand.
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post #2418 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Greggz View Post
I am looking at this like an opportunity.

To me the Bow selection is similar to plants......a variety of colors, shapes, and sizes.

I spent some time tonight watching the tank, and am trying to solve the puzzle. I think I know where this is going. Sending some emails to some breeders that I know tonight.

Will get at least one maybe two species I have never raised to see how they develop.


Glad to hear you are bouncing back OK, always a tough thing to deal with. Sounds like you acted very quickly and appropriately, Iím sure it would have been a lot worse otherwise. Glad you posted this... Paraguard has been sitting in my amazon cart bout time to get some just in case.


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Fluval EDGE slightly modded, low tech
3+ gallon (40 x 16 x 20.5 cm) aquatic soil, low-tech
Fluval spec V (sitting in a box)
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post #2419 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 07:06 AM
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Sorry for the "Ich" issues @Greggz

My last issue was Columnaris about 4 years ago.
Paraguard actually cleared the issues in two treatments!

I could be very wrong but always believed Ich could exist in any tank environment.
Something changes and Ich takes the upper hand.
Actually, there are no active ingredients in Paraguard that can treat an active columnaris infection.

Malachite green and acriflavine are antibacterials, which work to make the environment inhospitable to bacteria, but cannot cure an active bacterial infection.

Metheleyne blue works on secondary fungal infections- but, not the bacteria itself that causes the fungus in the first place.


Ich needs a host fish or it will die within 7-10 days in temperatures above 75 degrees ( typical aquarium temperatures) - the time it takes to complete its life-cycle. It cannot live without a host.

There are rare cases where the Ich parasite can live in the latent stage ( below the gill plate) on its host if this fish has previously been exposed to Ich and has some immunity- not increasing, but in stasis with the host fish. It stays in this latent state until the host fish weakens from some other stress: environmental, nutritional, etc...
But, like I said, this is rare. These cases are most likely why some believe that Ich is always present- when it is not.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
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post #2420 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 11:51 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vvDO View Post
Glad to hear you are bouncing back OK, always a tough thing to deal with. Sounds like you acted very quickly and appropriately, Iím sure it would have been a lot worse otherwise. Glad you posted this... Paraguard has been sitting in my amazon cart bout time to get some just in case
That was one of the reasons I posted about it, as it might save someone some agony down the road.

If I had ParaGuard on hand, and dosed at the very first hint of a problem, I probably would have saved some fish. With ich, the earlier the treatment the better. It multiplies exponentially when left untreated.
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post #2421 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 12:03 PM
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Ich needs a host fish or it will die within 7-10 days in temperatures above 75 degrees ( typical aquarium temperatures) - the time it takes to complete its life-cycle. It cannot live without a host.
In my previous post, I mentioned Ich was transferred to my tank via plants. The person I bought those plants from is in same state which means it took less than 2 business days for said plants to get to me. I got some floating plants with that order, so even though I didn't dump their tank water into mine, I didn't treat the plants prior to putting them in my tank. I don't order plants when we're in the middle of summer nor during the winter when it is sub-zero with wind chill factors.

I have recently ordered plants that are on their way from across the country. It will only take a couple of days since they are being shipped Priority Mail. Even though said plants were not living with any fish supposedly, they will still get a Paraguard soak and a really good rinse before they go into my tank. My fish are old; they don't need Ich and I don't feel like dealing with it.
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Last edited by Smooch; 05-12-2019 at 01:31 PM. Reason: Missed a word...
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post #2422 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 01:51 PM
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Actually, there are no active ingredients in Paraguard that can treat an active columnaris infection.
Maybe it was dumb luck and the Paraguard was a waste of money on that one.
It seemed to make an instant difference but maybe not?

The phish came from horrible crowded conditions.
Four turned into cotton balls with missing fins and tails, 4 out of 36 died.
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post #2423 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-12-2019, 05:35 PM
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In my previous post, I mentioned Ich was transferred to my tank via plants. The person I bought those plants from is in same state which means it took less than 2 business days for said plants to get to me. I got some floating plants with that order, so even though I didn't dump their tank water into mine, I didn't treat the plants prior to putting them in my tank. I don't order plants when we're in the middle of summer nor during the winter when it is sub-zero with wind chill factors.

I have recently ordered plants that are on their way from across the country. It will only take a couple of days since they are being shipped Priority Mail. Even though said plants were not living with any fish supposedly, they will still get a Paraguard soak and a really good rinse before they go into my tank. My fish are old; they don't need Ich and I don't feel like dealing with it.
Yes, it can transfer into aquarium through plants- when at stage when detached from host and has fallen to substrate to increase or when in free-swimming stage where can attach to stem plants. The life-cycle completes 7-10 days at temperatures above 75. But, at lower temperatures, like in ponds, it can take longer. Whatever the time-frame to complete the life-cycle depending on temperature, if it doesn't find a host at the free-swimming stage, it will die.

180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #2424 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-16-2019, 03:41 AM
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Just catching up on the TJ Greggz, sorry to hear the tank has ich, even sorrier to hear about the lost of fish. FWIW, I acquired Ich last year and bumped the temps for a couple of weeks to the 82-84 range and had no ill effects on the plants, they did just fine. Hope it all turns out OK.
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post #2425 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
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So I started down this lower dosing scheme on Feb 1st. Biggest change was a huge drop in K dosing.

All in all, things are going very well. Forget whatever I said about slower growth, as things seem to have adjusted and growth is fast as usual again. Biggest change is algae on the glass. Pretty much nonexistent, which is a good thing.

Ich has not come back, and am pretty sure I am in the clear. Still dosing Paraguard, and will for another few days. Better safe than sorry.

Had the pleasure this week to meet a Rainbow breeder I have been in contact with for years. Jim N. out of Darien, IL has been breeding Bows for 25 years, and has some excellent breeding groups. What a pleasure to spend time talking Rainbows with someone who loves them as much as I do. We know many of the same folks, as much like planted tanks, the Bow community is a fairly small world.

I picked up some young ones to grow out, and will post when I get some decent pics. It's not easy when they are small, that is for sure. My current Goyder Rivers are from his breeding group, and are the reddest ones I know of.

So here is the before and after of the tank today. Took a little over two hours, as it needed a good reduction of mass.




I had to really thin out the Limnophila Rugosa. If you recall, I had just a few small stems I placed to the left of the Pogo K. a short while ago. This plant sends out tons of side shoots and propagates very quickly. I've had this plant in many dosing schemes, and you just can't stop it from growing, so every so often you just have to beat it down. Here was the group this morning.



Was able to get one decent pic of one of the new Bows. This a Melanotaenia Herbertaxelrodi from Jim's stock. I am really looking forward to seeing these mature, as his stock has exceptional color. Pic doesn't do it justice yet, but this a very proud little fish that lights up the tank.



And here is an update on one I have been growing out for a while now. The Melanotaenia sp. Aru IV "Senckenbergianus". A slow grower, but getting better all the time. They are very similar to M. Picta (Aru II), and will put on a quite a display when full grown.

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post #2426 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 09:44 PM
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Sucks to hear you had Ich, that is such a PITA to get, but also why I now I have my QT rack whenever I get new fish! Plus I now always have that half gallon of ParaGuard and a 30oz container of General Cure by API.

I'm also doing the same as you already did, granted I forgot my before picture.... plant mass galore! LOL But your tank is looking good!
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post #2427 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 10:23 PM
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Really beautiful fish.
The last two rainbows- are they a wild line or hybridized version?
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180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #2428 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Really beautiful fish.
The last two rainbows- are they a wild line or hybridized version?
Both are pure lines from well known breeding groups.

The Herbertaxelrodi is a example of why breeding matters. There are lots of Herbert's raised by fish farms, and they do not compare to the original blood lines. This is true of many species of Rainbows. Some species like Goyder River's have been so over bred that they have little in common with well bred ones.

Here is one of my Goyder Rivers. He has the correct deep red color of the wild ones. Most of the LFS variety are pretty much a tan color now. That's why it's worth it to seek out good lineage.



The M. Aru IV from the pic above was first brought into the hobby in 2012, so it's relatively new and is not widely available. I've only seen a couple of pics available of mature ones, so it will be interesting to see what they become.


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post #2429 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-18-2019, 11:06 PM
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That fish is extraordinary! I think that the reason rainbow's have never appealed to me until seeing your was because of the sad, washed out versions that Ive seen for years at the LFS. But, its not just the vivid colors that set these fish apart ( the wild-lines), it is also the beautifully textured scales, iridescence, and that dramatic shape of body. The whole package is much different.

I also like the softer colored versions that more glow with color than punch you in the face ( in a good way! ) Like the soft, but glowing lavender color in the juvenile Melanotaenia Herbertaxelrodi.
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180 g. low tech w/ wild South American cichlids, corydoras eques, and African Congo riverine tetras.
60 g. low tech w/ F1 Alenquer pair /Stendker "Tefe" discus and wild Altum Angels
30 g. low tech w/ Wild Tucano tetras
30 g. low-tech African Biotope
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post #2430 of 2460 (permalink) Old 05-19-2019, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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That fish is extraordinary! I think that the reason rainbow's have never appealed to me until seeing your was because of the sad, washed out versions that Ive seen for years at the LFS. But, its not just the vivid colors that set these fish apart ( the wild-lines), it is also the beautifully textured scales, iridescence, and that dramatic shape of body. The whole package is much different.

I also like the softer colored versions that more glow with color than punch you in the face ( in a good way! ) Like the soft, but glowing lavender color in the juvenile Melanotaenia Herbertaxelrodi.
Well they are no Discus.........but still very good color for a fresh water fish. I always thought I would have had Discus by now, but my hands are pretty full since adding high tech plants to my hobby. Rainbows are a lot easier to care for than Discus, and in general are a healthy and long lived breed. So less commitment, and probably the next best thing for most.

I am sure much like with Discus, breeders strive to keep the blood lines pure. For instance, Jim's breeding stock of Goyder Rivers are from an original group of eggs brought to the U.S. from Australia in 1992. Very few groups have color like that now. Many of his other groups came originally from Gary Lange, who collected them in the wild.

And you summed it up well, the Herbertaxelrodi's glow. Hard to capture in pictures, but just truly beautiful in person. And that little one is less than two inches right now, so he's got a long way to go before fully mature.
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