Audrey's Aquatic Oasis: "Go big or go home - 220 gallon build for my 3 year old!" - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-18-2016, 09:00 PM Thread Starter
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Audrey's Aquatic Oasis: "Go big or go home - 220 gallon build for my 3 year old!"

The story goes like this: I used to have lots of fish tanks, among other various reptiles and amphibians. My favorite was my 125 gallon reef setup, with hard corals, clams, etc. Fast forward 10 years. I am married, have a daughter who will soon be three, but the only animal currently in our house is a 90 pound German Shepherd (aka, the fur factory). However, my daughter got a 10 gallon fish tank in her classroom at school. She loves it and drags mommy to see the fishies and the froggy every time she gets picked up. I made the comment to the wife, "why don't we get a fish tank for the house?", to which she agreed. I may have left out the part about what size tank I was going to get. But, as they say, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, haha!

The plan is to end up with a low tech planted tank housing schools of tetras, small barbs, shrimp, and of course, a frog or two. After searching the forums and craigslist, I found a beautiful 220 gallon Oceanic tank. I figure I have 7 feet of wall space to work with, so at 6 feet wide, the wife can't say I took up the entire wall! I will be picking it up this weekend, and the setup is as follows:

-220 gallon Oceanic aquarium (72 x 24 x 30)

-Custom welded metal stand and custom built top

-Fluval FX5 canister filter (I am going to see if this suffices, and will add a second one down the road if necessary)

-200 pounds Black Diamond Blasting Sand - fine grit (from tractor supply)


QUESTION TIME!!! I hate to say, but after all of the time out of the aquarium hobby, I have forgot quite a few things. I have done a bunch of goolgling and forum reading, but wanted to verify a few things that I have found to be inconsistent.

Starting out, I hate to admit I have forgot how to properly cycle a tank. Will it benefit me to get some filter media from an existing setup, to help expedite the cycle? Do any of the "magic" chemicals actually work (or just some pure amonia to start, and if so, how much)? I assume my Houston tap water is okay? Do I need to treat the water with any conditioner?

For lighting, I was thinking of going with two 36 Finnex Planted+ 24/7 LED lights. For now, can I start with one, and add second later on when I add the plants?

For the substrate, do I need to mix in any type of eco complete or other enriched substrate, or can I just pick plants that will allow me to use liquid fertilizer, and fish/shrimp that can tolerate slightly harder water? Should I add anything else down before the substrate for the shrimp? I have seen a few videos of people sprinkling certain powders they say are needed for healthy shrimp growth.

I think that covers everything for now. I plan on keeping track and posting pictures for everyone.

And this is what an excited youngster looks like when you tell her, "Daddy is getting a fish tank for our house!"
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post #2 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-18-2016, 09:25 PM
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Dude the comment about 'it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission' crack me up. I do the same with the wife but she normally gives me that death stare when she finds out. My daughter is almost three and she enjoys feeding our fish and shrimp tank. Cant wait to see your giant tank =)

If it aint broke dont fix it.
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post #3 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-18-2016, 11:23 PM
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'Tim's one and only' bacteria worked for me, but it'll be pretty expensive for that large of a tank. For fishless cycling, you basically just want to keep dosing pure ammonia to keep the tank at around 3 ppm until all of the ammonia and nitrite gets converted into nitrate in less than 12 hours or so. Google for 'fishless cycle ammonia calculator'. You need to get an ammonia that doesn't foam at all - Ace Hardware brand 'janitorial ammonia' works well. You will need to treat the water with a de-chlorinator: Seachem Prime is the best bang for your buck.

You will probably need more light than that. its a pretty wide and deep tank, probably need two strips (front and back) to get reasonable coverage over 24", and the 24/7 will give you fairly low light in a 30" deep tank - should work fine for low-med light plants though - crypts, vals, anubias, etc. But you will need four of the 36" 24/7s to get uniform coverage. If you want more light, DSunY and Beamsworks are Chinese imports that are often recommended around here as a good bang for your buck light - I haven't used them, but it looks like they put out a lot of light for what you pay. You might want to ask about that specifically in the lighting forum - it is one of the most important parts of a planted tank.

Inert substrate works fine with most (not all) plants. You can add root tabs if you want to help them out, but most plants are fine with just water column ferts. You will definitely want to look into dry ferts with that much water volume to dose.

-Justin

Last edited by jrygel; 03-21-2016 at 02:59 PM. Reason: Remove double post
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post #4 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-19-2016, 12:14 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrygel View Post
'Tim's one and only' bacteria worked for me, but it'll be pretty expensive for that large of a tank. For fishless cycling, you basically just want to keep dosing pure ammonia to keep the tank at around 3 ppm until all of the ammonia and nitrite gets converted into nitrate in less than 12 hours or so. Google for 'fishless cycle ammonia calculator'. You need to get an ammonia that doesn't foam at all - Ace Hardware brand 'janitorial ammonia' works well. You will need to treat the water with a de-chlorinator: Seachem Prime is the best bang for your buck.

You will probably need more light than that. its a pretty wide and deep tank, probably need two strips (front and back) to get reasonable coverage over 24", and the 24/7 will give you fairly low light in a 30" deep tank - should work fine for low-med light plants though - crypts, vals, anubias, etc. But you will need four of the 36" 24/7s to get uniform coverage. If you want more light, DSunY and Beamsworks are Chinese imports that are often recommended around here as a good bang for your buck light - I haven't used them, but it looks like they put out a lot of light for what you pay. You might want to ask about that specifically in the lighting forum - it is one of the most important parts of a planted tank.

Inert substrate works fine with most (not all) plants. You can add root tabs if you want to help them out, but most plants are fine with just water column ferts. You will definitely want to look into dry ferts with that much water volume to dose.

-Justin
Awesome information. Thank you very much. I will look into those lights you suggested. I really like the automated 24/7 light cycle, so worst case scenario, I will either get more lights, or go with low/med light plants. Thanks again!


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post #5 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-19-2016, 12:55 AM
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Its great to see how excited kids get with aquariums, and to see the future generations are getting taught how to properly keep a aquarium at a young age. I have a large aquarium planned for my little sister (8 years old) myself. Mine however has gotten an approval from mom. I'm planning a 3 foot x 3 foot, 100 gallon square riparium, that will also house a few schools of neon, rummy nose, cherry barbs, and another school or centerpiece fish of my sisters choosing.
Now to answer your questions:
When cycling the tank it is best to try to find some cycled media even if it just a handful. From my understanding it can take some time for the beneficial bacteria to start to form but once it does, it multiplies rapidly. So without some cycled media you have to wait for the each type of bacteria to form, e.g. the types that convert ammonia into nitrite, then the type that converts nitrites into nitrates. The type that converts nitrites into nitrates cannot form until there are nitrites, so the type that forms nitrites from ammonia must first form and start producing nitrites before the other can form.
When it comes to chemicals that are supposed to "jump start" a tank, I have no experience. I have heard some work but I don't personally have experience, so I'll leave that up to someone else to elaborate on.
You should test your water so that you can see what your ph is. It generally depends on the fish what range of ph is best. Many of the fish that you are planning to keep do fine in a wide range of conditions, because, for the most part, they are usually captive bread and can tolerate different conditions. The stipulation to this is that the conditions that you have in your tank need to be consistent, so if your ph is 7 and your fish are naturally from a ph of 7.4 (fyi this is just an example), don't try to raise your ph to 7.4. Doing so is going to be difficult to keep consistent, especially if you are going to be filling from a python or some other type of system that connects directly to the tap. Because you will have to adjust the ph once its in your tank, so what will happen is by adding your tap water your going to lower the ph for say 30 minutes during the water change. Then your going to have to raise the ph once the tank is full but if you don't adjust the ph perfectly and you over shoot it your going to either have to bring it back down or do another water change. That swing in ph is more stressful on the fish than them simply being in your natural tap water.
Also you will need to use some type of conditioner with your water, I would recommend Seachem Prime or Seachem Safe. They are both the same thing but safe is in a powder form and way more concentrated. With a tank the size of yours safe is going to be the cheaper option because with a bottle of safe will last like 10x as long for the same price as prime.
I can't find the par data on the Planted + 24/7 or the Planted + for that matter but I would say that, on a 30" deep tank that is 24" wide, its not going to be enough. Something like a 72" DSunY freshwater led light would be enough and they can be bought off ebay for $250 which is only about $20 more than two Planted + 24/7's.
As far as the substrate goes black diamond blasting sand is plenty by itself. You could add a true planted substrate, like eco complete to it but in my opinion its not needed and makes the sand look bad. You could add some osmocote though, doing so will give heavy root feeders, like amazon swards, something to thrive on. Myself or many others would be happy to sell you some that has already been inserted into jell capsules, the capsules are not necessary but you need to add more every 3-6 months and its kind of impossible without capsules. Or you can buy the osmocote and capsules yourself and make some on your own. Addatives for shrimp, I don't believe, are necessary. I have ghost shrimp in many tanks without any additives and have no problems. Maybe some of the higher quality, harder to keep shrimp need these? But I would assume you are not planning to keep anything more than low grade crs, and even then crs maybe a stretch.
I think this covers all your questions, but as with most things these are my experiences and others opinions may be different. If you need anymore advice or have some more questions feel free to quote me, so that I get a notification of your question, and I'll answer it to the best of my ability.
Edit
FYI I started this before jrygel's post so there is some repeated information, but it does affirm what he and I said.
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post #6 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-19-2016, 01:50 AM
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Just to add to the cycling information already posted above, I find that seeding the aquarium with a sponge from another healthy aquarium filter speeds up the process quite a bit, and its more reliable than a lot of those bacteria starter liquids on the market.. Sometimes it only takes a few days rather than weeks. The more seeding material, the better. If you don't have access to any, you might try an LFS that you know to have healthy tanks (usually not Petsmart or Petco). I know the Fish Gallery here in Dallas has no problem giving away old filter material and I know they have a branch there in Houston. Just my 2 cents.
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post #7 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-19-2016, 08:28 AM
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I ordered a seeded filter sponge online (still learning my local stores) and cycled my tank in eight days. I think I may have a bit of whiplash.
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post #8 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-20-2016, 02:15 PM
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Wow you are well on your way then. Can't wait to see this one as it comes together.
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post #9 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-20-2016, 02:55 PM
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agree w/ the earlier comment as to 2 lights. i have a 6' 265 and am using 2 6' bml's on a dimmer.

1 was not enough, and i added the 2d one about 8 mos after setting up the tank. my plantlist is similar to what you're talking about; crypts, anubias, vals, etc.

looking forward to seeing your build.
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post #10 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-20-2016, 03:05 PM
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Here is the fishless cycle:
Cycle: To grow the beneficial bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite from the aquarium.

Fish-In Cycle: To expose fish to toxins while using them as the source of ammonia to grow nitrogen cycle bacteria. Exposure to ammonia burns the gills and other soft tissue, stresses the fish and lowers their immunity. Exposure to nitrite makes the blood unable to carry oxygen. Research methemoglobinemia for details.

Fishless Cycle: The safe way to grow more bacteria, faster, in an aquarium, pond or riparium.

The method I give here was developed by 2 scientists who wanted to quickly grow enough bacteria to fully stock a tank all at one time, with no plants helping, and overstock it as is common with Rift Lake Cichlid tanks.

1a) Set up the tank and all the equipment. You can plant if you want. Include the proper dose of dechlorinator with the water.
Optimum water chemistry:
GH and KH above 3 German degrees of hardness. A lot harder is just fine.
pH above 7, and into the mid 8s is just fine. (7.5-8 seems to be optimum)
Temperature in the upper 70s F (mid 20s C) is good. Higher (to 95*F or about 35*C) is OK if the water is well aerated.
A trace of other minerals may help. Usually this comes in with the water, but if you have a pinch of KH2PO4, and trace elements like CSM+B that may be helpful.
High oxygen level. Make sure the filter and power heads are running well. Plenty of water circulation.
No toxins in the tank. If you washed the tank, or any part of the system with any sort of cleanser, soap, detergent, bleach or anything else make sure it is well rinsed. Do not put your hands in the tank when you are wearing any sort of cosmetics, perfume or hand lotion. No fish medicines of any sort.
A trace of salt (sodium chloride) is OK, but not required.
This method of growing bacteria will work in a marine system, too. The species of bacteria are different.

1b) Optional: Add any source of the bacteria that you are growing to seed the tank. Cycled media from a healthy tank is good. Decor or some gravel from a cycled tank is OK. Live plants or plastic are OK. I have even heard of the right bacteria growing in the bio film found on driftwood. (So if you have been soaking some driftwood in preparation to adding it to the tank, go ahead and put it into the tank) Bottled bacteria is great, but only if it contains Nitrospira species of bacteria. Read the label and do not waste your money on anything else.
At the time this was written the right species could be found in:
Dr. Tims One and Only
Tetra Safe Start
Microbe Lift Nite Out II
...and perhaps others.
You do not have to jump start the cycle. The right species of bacteria are all around, and will find the tank pretty fast.

2) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This ammonia is the cheapest you can find. No surfactants, no perfumes. Read the fine print. This is often found at discount stores like Dollar Tree, or hardware stores like Ace. You could also use a dead shrimp form the grocery store, or fish food. Protein breaks down to become ammonia. You do not have good control over the ammonia level, though.
Some substrates release ammonia when they are submerged for the first time. Monitor the level and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia at the levels detailed below.

3) Test daily. For the first few days not much will happen, but the bacteria that remove ammonia are getting started. Finally the ammonia starts to drop. Add a little more, once a day, to test 5 ppm.

4) Test for nitrite. A day or so after the ammonia starts to drop the nitrite will show up. When it does allow the ammonia to drop to 3 ppm.

5) Test daily. Add ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. If the nitrite or ammonia go to 5 ppm do a water change to get these lower. The ammonia removing species and the nitrite removing species (Nitrospira) do not do well when the ammonia or nitrite are over 5 ppm.

6) When the ammonia and nitrite both hit zero 24 hours after you have added the ammonia the cycle is done. You can challenge the bacteria by adding a bit more than 3 ppm ammonia, and it should be able to handle that, too, within 24 hours.

7) Now test the nitrate. Probably sky high!
Do as big a water change as needed to lower the nitrate until it is safe for fish. Certainly well under 20, and a lot lower is better. This may call for more than one water change, and up to 100% water change is not a problem. Remember the dechlor!
If you will be stocking right away (within 24 hours) no need to add more ammonia. If stocking will be delayed keep feeding the bacteria by adding ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. You will need to do another water change right before adding the fish.
__________________________

Helpful hints:

A) You can run a fishless cycle in a bucket to grow bacteria on almost any filter media like bio balls, sponges, ceramic bio noodles, lava rock or Matala mats. Simply set up any sort of water circulation such as a fountain pump or air bubbler and add the media to the bucket. Follow the directions for the fishless cycle. When the cycle is done add the media to the filter. I have run a canister filter in a bucket and done the fishless cycle.

B) The nitrogen cycle bacteria will live under a wide range of conditions and bounce back from minor set backs. By following the set up suggestions in part 1a) you are setting up optimum conditions for fastest reproduction and growth.
GH and KH can be as low as 1 degree, but watch it! These bacteria may use the carbon in carbonates, and if it is all used up (KH = 0) the bacteria may die off. They use the carbon from CO2, and this is generally pretty low in water, but can be replenished from the air and from carbonates. Keep the carbonates up to keep the pH up, too.
pH as low as 6.5 is OK, but by 6.0 the bacteria are not going to be doing very well. They are still there, and will recover pretty well when conditions get better. To grow them at optimum rates, keep the pH on the alkaline side of neutral.
Temperature almost to freezing is OK, but they must not freeze, and they are not very active at all. They do survive in a pond, but they are slow to warm up and get going in the spring. This is where you might need to grow some in a bucket in a warm place and supplement the pond population. Too warm is not good, either. Tropical or room temperature tank temperatures are best. (68 to 85*F or 20 to 28*C)
Moderate oxygen can be tolerated for a while. However, to remove lots of ammonia and nitrite these bacteria must have oxygen. They turn one into the other by adding oxygen. If you must stop running the filter for an hour or so, no problem. If longer, remove the media and keep it where it will get more oxygen.
Once the bacteria are established they can tolerate some fish medicines. This is because they live in a complex film called Bio film on all the surfaces in the filter and the tank. Medicines do not enter the bio film well.
These bacteria do not need to live under water. They do just fine in a humid location. They live in healthy garden soil, as well as wet locations.

C) Planted tanks may not tolerate 3 ppm or 5 ppm ammonia. It is possible to cycle the tank at lower levels of ammonia so the plants do not get ammonia burn. Add ammonia to only 1 ppm, but test twice a day, and add ammonia as needed to keep it at 1 ppm. The plants are also part of the bio filter, and you may be able to add the fish sooner, if the plants are thriving. 1 ppm twice a day will grow almost as much bacteria as 3 ppm once a day.
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post #11 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-21-2016, 03:21 AM Thread Starter
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Post Update: 3-20-2016

Thank you all for the above. I will definitely be donating to this forum, just from the information you all have provided me as a newbie!! I am definitely going to try to get some seed material for the filters.

Got the substrate (Black Diamond blasting sand), the tank, custom welded steel and powder-coated stand, top and fluval fx5 filter today. Also got a few nice pieces of driftwood. I am going to pick up an additional Fluval fx6 filter from a local, this week. I figure that should get me started for right now. The youngster is super excited!

Hopefully, I will get the sand and driftwood all rinsed off, and get the filters cleaned and hooked up this week sometime. Maybe even get some water in the tank!. Still need to get some lights, and probably a heater. I may go with my LED shop light just so the tank looks pretty for the wife, haha!
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post #12 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-21-2016, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Post Update: 3-21-16

I added my Snap-On LED shop light on the tank, just to get an idea of what it will look like lit up. LED's are hard to photograph, but I am very surprised how bright this thing is! It definitely isn't full spectrum, but for $40, it might be some great additional lighting, or a great idea for someone with a non planted tank.

I did however go ahead and order two 36" Finnex Planted+ 24/7 lights. Got them both for $200 shipped, and I can always return them if I don't like them. I'll probably add an extra one or two down the road, if I like them.
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post #13 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-21-2016, 03:56 PM
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Just so you know, the pics aren't showing. Just a little box where you can follow the link to the image, but you must be a Houston Fishbox member to view it.
Look below the reply box where it says "Drag and Drop File Upload", you can simply drag and drop a image from your picture folder there.

UPDATE: Pics work now

Last edited by WaterLife; 03-21-2016 at 05:22 PM. Reason: update
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post #14 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-22-2016, 03:34 AM Thread Starter
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Post Update: 3-21-2016

Got the sand rinsed off and in the tank, one piece of driftwood set in (the only one that will currently sink), and put in some water. Went ahead and marked the water level, and I will check it out tomorrow. I had an "incident" many years ago with a leaking tank, and learned to NEVER fill a tank up all the way at first, haha!

I also included a picture of the side, so you can see the custom cow print. I actually like it a lot, and think it matches my house pretty well. Great thing is the stand is just wood panels with fabric stapled on them. The panels have heavy duty magnets which stick to the steel frame stand. If I want to change out the design, it just takes a new piece of fabric and a staple gun! Same with the top.
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post #15 of 42 (permalink) Old 03-22-2016, 03:42 AM
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Love the updates, thanks for sharing, can't wait to see and read more!

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