is there a single parameter that causes plants to stop pearling - The Planted Tank Forum
 1Likes
  • 2 Post By cjp999
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 206
is there a single parameter that causes plants to stop pearling

With the same amount of lighting and schedule, same ph and same CO2 bubble count albeit on more often due to degassing, is there any particular water parameter that leads to less or even no pearling.

Plants pearled for many months but seemed to stop. KH steady between 2-3, all other test including phosphate 0.

Really, the only variable has been time and the addition of Aquavitrol Envy in addition to Excel and flourish. Added water lettuce a few months ago too. The tank was set up this time last year and pearling stopped several months ago.

Found plenty of references regarding water changes, but I do not notice that although I only do 15% and have been since the start.
Prior to the change over to sump, I would always see small bubbles at the surface but not streaming from leaves like in the first 6 - 8 months.

Born a Pisces, Always a Pisces
Bobbybills is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 06:42 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: California
Posts: 890
Phosphate 0? You probably just answered your own question. Plant will have a hard time or will not grow without phosphates.

Plants need Light, C02 and nutrients.The nutrients needed are N,P,K,Ca,Mg,Fe and Trace (Cu,Mn,B,Mo,Zn, etc)

In order for plants to grow they need a good amount of the macros:

P from Phosphate (P04) is one of the macros that is always almost 0 if not dosed on a regular basis. N can come from the fish waste, plant matter, etc. As it comes from NO3 which is nitrate.

Ca,Mg and even K can come from the tap but can easily be dosed using what they call a GH Booster.

Fe or Iron can sometimes come from the trace.

So how much do you need?

1-3 ppm Phosphate
5-20 ppm Nitrate

The amount varies depending on the light and C02 factor. High light and high C02 Dosing means you need to have all of the nutrients in non-limiting amounts. Meaning an abundant amount to make sure that plants have all what they need to grow.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
PortalMasteryRy is offline  
post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by PortalMasteryRy View Post
Phosphate 0? You probably just answered your own question. Plant will have a hard time or will not grow without phosphates.
I had not tested phosphate in a while so I just did and it is actually somewhere between .05 and .1 according to the SeaChem test kit. Color matching is not within my core competency, especially yellow green, and the wife refuses to look at anything fish related. It was more yellow and closer to zero, but I just put in a few Flourish NPK tabs the other day so perhaps these are starting to dissolve. I had not used them in a few months so the timing would be correct.

BUT, I keep cutting back the stem plants in order to keep them below the water line, and even had to completely remove water sprite after it began to shade the living room. Growing does not appear to be as much as an issue as the lack of pearling.

Perhaps the water lettuce, which grows at a ridiculous rate, doubling every week, is acting like a phosphate sponge for what little phosphate there is. That is why I added it in the first place. I harvest the old plants, leaving the new ones. Introduction of these plants also times out correctly with the lack of pearling.

I will test in a week to see if the root tabs do anything substantial to the phosphate level. I can also get the liquid stuff if not. Thank you very much for your suggestion.

Born a Pisces, Always a Pisces

Last edited by Bobbybills; 02-03-2016 at 09:15 PM. Reason: stupidity on my part
Bobbybills is offline  
 
post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 09:13 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
Posts: 791
If you have a larger plant mass now than when you had pearling (or more specifically, more daily growth), you might just need to scale the fertz up a bit to compensate.
cjp999 is offline  
post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 09:19 PM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 206
cjp999, I think that is right. I had put a few tabs in when I originally planted and then just sat back and watched. I really don't follow any dosing schedule other than "when I remember" so I will do what you say. I did use Flourish regularly but only every other week or so. Thanks again.

Born a Pisces, Always a Pisces
Bobbybills is offline  
post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 09:38 PM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbybills View Post
cjp999, I think that is right. I had put a few tabs in when I originally planted and then just sat back and watched. I really don't follow any dosing schedule other than "when I remember" so I will do what you say. I did use Flourish regularly but only every other week or so. Thanks again.
You had pearling with just dosing Flourish every other week? Do you feed a lot to the fish? Does your tap water have fertz already? Just surprised that you would see pearling for any sustained period of time with so little dosing, so I'm assuming the fertz are coming from some place also.
cjp999 is offline  
post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 01:32 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjp999 View Post
You had pearling with just dosing Flourish every other week? Do you feed a lot to the fish? Does your tap water have fertz already? Just surprised that you would see pearling for any sustained period of time with so little dosing, so I'm assuming the fertz are coming from some place also.
I originally planted flourish tabs together with the plants. I had so much pearling from one plant that as the plant swayed in the current, the bubbles on the surface made a figure eight.

Only RO water with Seachem Replenish. Yes, I was feeding twice as much as I do now. I just enjoy watching the fish eat frozen brine and bloodworms. I was alternating every other day between the two, now I just do one of each one day a week, with flake food once per day on the other days.

Born a Pisces, Always a Pisces
Bobbybills is offline  
post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 206
cjp99, here are a few photos showing how fast the plants grew early on. After November, I thinned the tank substantially and cut down on the food to combat the hair algae, which is mostly gone now.

I made the mistake of just dropping plants where I thought they looked good, rather than based on height. But honestly, I never had this type of growth even under my old metal halide lights a few decades ago.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20150324_201240.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	106.7 KB
ID:	585138  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20150405_082237.jpg
Views:	56
Size:	106.3 KB
ID:	585146  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20150415_160202.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	126.8 KB
ID:	585154  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20150908_214211.jpg
Views:	48
Size:	113.7 KB
ID:	585162  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20151129_203110.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	108.3 KB
ID:	585170  


Born a Pisces, Always a Pisces
Bobbybills is offline  
post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 02:03 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
Posts: 791
Wow, that looks great! Clearly you have a lot more plant mass now, but if growth is still good and you don't see signs of deficiencies, maybe just don' t mess with success. I'd hate to see you add more fertz just to induce pearling and suddenly run into other issues.
cjp999 is offline  
post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 02:30 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 206
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjp999 View Post
I'd hate to see you add more fertz just to induce pearling and suddenly run into other issues.
Do you agree with the previous 1-3ppm phosphate recommendation? I have tried to keep phosphate down as best I could. Going from .05/.1 to 3 is a huge increase.

Born a Pisces, Always a Pisces
Bobbybills is offline  
post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 02:51 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbybills View Post
Do you agree with the previous 1-3ppm phosphate recommendation? I have tried to keep phosphate down as best I could. Going from .05/.1 to 3 is a huge increase.
I dose at relatively high levels using EI, but it's been so long since I came up with my current dosing schedule that I honestly have no idea how much I'm putting in. .

Sounds like that would be a big change for you. Can't say I'd recommend it if you are successful with your current dosing. If you want to experiment, it's up to you. Just keep an eye on how algae and plants respond.
cjp999 is offline  
post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 03:24 AM Thread Starter
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 206
Ok thanks. So the bottom line is that as the tank matures and the plants grow, increase the dosing levels to maintain the same levels as in the beginning. I guess?

Born a Pisces, Always a Pisces
Bobbybills is offline  
post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 03:27 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobbybills View Post
Ok thanks. So the bottom line is that as the tank matures and the plants grow, increase the dosing levels to maintain the same levels as in the beginning. I guess?
I would say that if you initially had good results with a newly and lightly planted tank, then you should expect to have to increase amount of fertz as the plant mass gets bigger (really it's the amount of daily growth that matters, not the plant mass).

But...in your case you seem to still have a well balanced tank that grows well and does not have algae issues, so I wouldn't necessary recommend changing anything.
Hoppy and Hoppy like this.
cjp999 is offline  
post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 10:40 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
happi's Avatar
 
PTrader: (21/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 3,139
Send a message via Yahoo to happi
PO4 and k+ can cause heavy pearling

DIY Trace/Micro/Macro Recipe
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


DIY Trace/Micro/Calculation Etc
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
happi is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome