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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 12:22 AM Thread Starter
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Low Iron

Has anyone had an issue dosing PPS-Pro and still having low iron in the tank?
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 01:34 AM
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Highly possible but it depends on many factors, plant mass, type of plants, light and CO2 levels, GH/KH, what all ferts are being used, and probably a dozen other things or more.

So the question is too general for an answer either way to do you much good.

If you are having an issue need to post pics and give as much specific info as you can about every aspect of the tank.


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-04-2016, 12:34 AM Thread Starter
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I don't have horrible issues. I have a decent plant mass, I have two BML light fixtures one is a 6300 and the other is a 10K. I control them thru my apex with following! From 12 till 2:30 they go from 10% to 45%, then from 2:30 till 4 they go from 45% to 55% then from 4 till 6 they go from 55% to 60% then from 6 till 8 from 60% back down till 10%. My co2 level is around 35ppm PH normally drops from 7 to around 6.15 when the co2 is on. I have my co2 come on two hours before the lights and off one hour before they go off. My GH is 8 and my KH is 5. I have my apex DOS putting in 10ml each of macros and micros using PPS-pro. All my other water tests come out great. But anytime I test iron, there is little to no iron. I feel my red plants could be more red. I also get a little green algae growing on the red plants in the center of the tank, and I also get a little brown/red algae growing in the substrate along the front of the glass below the substrate. So any tips suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-13-2016, 12:41 AM
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Hi dragam21
How large is your aquarium?

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-13-2016, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragam21 View Post
Has anyone had an issue dosing PPS-Pro and still having low iron in the tank?
As a fellow PPS-Pro doser I have often wondered the same thing.
I have a 20g grow out tank with a bunch of hygro in it and it seems if I don't add 3ml of csm-b solution each day the hydro begins showing signs of iron deficiency. Guess I really should get a test kit to see where I am at.

Will be following this thread to see how things turn out for you.


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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-13-2016, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Immortal1 View Post
As a fellow PPS-Pro doser I have often wondered the same thing.
I have a 20g grow out tank with a bunch of hygro in it and it seems if I don't add 3ml of csm-b solution each day the hydro begins showing signs of iron deficiency. Guess I really should get a test kit to see where I am at.

Will be following this thread to see how things turn out for you.
Hi Immortal1
I am glad you brought it up.
Lately I see lots of threads about trace element deficiencies and toxicities. This uncertainty is going on for a decade now.

What is funny is that I set PPS-Classic with 0.01 ppm Fe and PPS-Pro with 0.1 ppm Fe. The reason behind this was to answer to people who were experiencing deficiencies. Personally I dose 0.01 Fe and donít see deficiencies. How come some people do and some donít?

Only recently I read on this forum a reasonable explanation. It was the substrate CEC Cation Exchange Capacity. This CEC explains why the discrepancies from one aquarium to another.

My aquariums have inert silica sand and that is probably why I am doing fine with 1/10th of the PPS-Pro Fe dose. So if we think about the other substrates, substrates with high CEC, we cannot be sure if there is deficiency or toxicity happening. Is the substrate new, saturated or old? Is the substrate absorbing, locking up or releasing? We donít know.

So back to the original question, ďHas anyone had an issue dosing PPS-Pro and still having low iron in the tank?Ē I have to say unlikely. Why? Because it is 10x more Fe then is sufficient with no CEC substrate. I think you are experiencing toxicity and therefore recommending 1/10th of the PPS-Pro dose.

Edward PPS


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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-13-2016, 04:42 AM
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@Edward

Quote:
What is funny is that I set PPS-Classic with 0.01 ppm Fe and PPS-Pro with 0.1 ppm Fe. The reason behind this was to answer to people who were experiencing deficiencies. Personally I dose 0.01 Fe and don’t see deficiencies. How come some people do and some don’t?

Only recently I read on this forum a reasonable explanation. It was the substrate CEC Cation Exchange Capacity. This CEC explains why the discrepancies from one aquarium to another.

My aquariums have inert silica sand and that is probably why I am doing fine with 1/10th of the PPS-Pro Fe dose. So if we think about the other substrates, substrates with high CEC, we cannot be sure if there is deficiency or toxicity happening. Is the substrate new, saturated or old? Is the substrate absorbing, locking up or releasing? We don’t know.

So back to the original question, “Has anyone had an issue dosing PPS-Pro and still having low iron in the tank?” I have to say unlikely. Why? Because it is 10x more Fe then is sufficient with no CEC substrate. I think you are experiencing toxicity and therefore recommending 1/10th of the PPS-Pro dose.
Do things like light levels, CO2, plant mass, type of plants, etc...do any of these things play a role in determining how much Fe a tank needs? It seems unlikely to me that one can definitively say "x" amount works for one type of sub, and "y" amount works for another. Help me understand how does that work exactly?


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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-13-2016, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward View Post
Hi Immortal1
I am glad you brought it up.
Lately I see lots of threads about trace element deficiencies and toxicities. This uncertainty is going on for a decade now.

What is funny is that I set PPS-Classic with 0.01 ppm Fe and PPS-Pro with 0.1 ppm Fe. The reason behind this was to answer to people who were experiencing deficiencies. Personally I dose 0.01 Fe and donít see deficiencies. How come some people do and some donít?

Edward PPS

The most popular of these threads seems to point to CSM+B toxicity especially w sensitive shrimp. Do you believe this could be the source?
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-13-2016, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
@Edward


Do things like light levels, CO2, plant mass, type of plants, etc...do any of these things play a role in determining how much Fe a tank needs? It seems unlikely to me that one can definitively say "x" amount works for one type of sub, and "y" amount works for another. Help me understand how does that work exactly?
Hi burr740
I think, variations in lighting, CO2 and plant mass in fully planted aquariums may require double or triple Fe dosage which is insignificant when we are dosing ten, even hundred times more. The key is to dose more often in smaller amounts. Daily small fresh additions are better than large weekly additions.

We have an abundance of CO2, light energy and fertilizers that is becoming detrimental. On top of that we have unstable substrates that are continuously altering water parameters. How are we going to control all of this?

My answer is conductivity. Conductivity is a single measurement of dissolved matter in the water column. It includes macro-micro fertilizers and substrate leaks, all in one number. By using this value we can maintain consistent environment with properly sized water changes. Properly sized water changes, not too little and not too much. Both extremes are harmful. https://sites.google.com/site/aquati...home/tds-meter

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turningdoc View Post
The most popular of these threads seems to point to CSM+B toxicity especially w sensitive shrimp. Do you believe this could be the source?
Hi Turningdoc
There are hundreds of posts about toxicity and also about safe usage of CSM+B. The same applies to other micro nutrient products so I don’t know, I cannot say because I don’t have shrimps. What seems to be logical is that the toxicity may be related more to overdosing and accumulation.

Edward PPS


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Last edited by Darkblade48; 02-14-2016 at 02:57 PM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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Hi dragam21
How large is your aquarium?

Edward PPS
Sorry for the long delay in response, its a 90g
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 07:55 PM
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If your pH drops by .85 due to CO2 you are much more likely to have 20 ppm of CO2 than 35 ppm. I'm not saying CO2 is your problem, just pointing out what looks like a discrepancy in what you said.

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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 08:16 PM
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If the micronutrients are imbalanced, induced iron deficiency can result. Excess Mn, Zn, and possibly others can prevent the uptake or translocation of iron. So if if it appears that you are adding excessive trace nutrients (plants use only a minute fraction of what's dosed), then the issue is not an iron deficiency.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 02-23-2016, 09:17 PM
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Hi dragam21
With the Solution #2, I would try 1/10th or 2 drops per 10 gallon for few weeks and see how new growth looks like. Basically this is changing your dosing from 0.1 to 0.01 ppm Fe a day.

Looks like you donít have inert substrate, so the CO2 Carbonic acid is continuously dissolving it, degrading water quality. You need to keep it under control with water changes. One way is 50% weekly or following conductivity readings which is easy and more accurate. Please see ďHow do I start PPS-ProĒ section.

How many bubbles do you supply per second?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dragam21 View Post
... I have two BML light fixtures one is a 6300 and the other is a 10K. I control them thru my apex with following! From 12 till 2:30 they go from 10% to 45%, then from 2:30 till 4 they go from 45% to 55% then from 4 till 6 they go from 55% to 60% then from 6 till 8 from 60% back down till 10%.
We need some kind of Light PAR Calculator for this.


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