Am I Dosing enough? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-31-2016, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
m_t_r_86's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 70
Hey guys and gals, I was wondering if I'm dosing enough. But before I get started, let me fill you in on my tank and parameters.

AQUARIUM
20 Long, up and running for about 8 months, heavily planted, dual t5ho odyssea single reflector (2-6500K bulbs), diy co2 (2 2liter mixture bottles and 1 2liter gas exchange bottle {using this setup drops my pH by about 4.5}), EI Dosing, running Neptune Apex Jr. with pH controller, before every water change I test water (ammonia-0, nitrite-0, nitrate-0), 10 gallon wet/dry sump, lighting period of 11 hrs, temp-78/79, pH-7.35(when lights are on) and pH-7.75(when lights are off), 1 425gph powerhead with the diy co2 line pushed into it to chop the co2 bubbles and NO ALGAE problems.

DOSING
Macros-Su, Tu, Th
Micros-Mo, We, Fr
Adding Seachem Iron once to twice a week at 3mL per dose
Root tabs every couple months - 3-4 tabs per root feeding plant

STOCKING
5-bloddfin tertas, 5-black neon tetras, 3-julii corys, 2-SAE, 1-albino bristlenose pleco, 20-30-ramshorn snails (various sizes)

PLANTS
1-anubias, 12-anacharis, 5-red jungle val, 3-amazon swords, 15-alternanthera reineckii variegated, 1-aponogeton ulvaceus, 12-moneywort, 3-cryptocorine wendtii, 3-java moss

And now for the story. So about 4 weeks ago, I noticed pinholes on my crypts, swords and alternanthera as well as the older leaves shrinking on my moneywort as well as stunted growth from my jungle val. The only plants that seemed unaffected were the anubias, anacharis, aponogeton and java moss. I have been dosing using dry ferts and following the EI dosing method. At this point I was dosing the proper amounts to be dosing. On the EI website, I had my dose at 20mL. Before changing the water, tested the water parameters and 0's across the board. So I decided to increase the ferts to 30mL without changing the solution I had (according to EI, I was now dosing 1.5x the needed amount). Went another week and noticed improvements. However, the issue was still present. Tested the water before water change time and again, 0's across the board. I now increased my dose 35mL (1.75x the needed amount according to EI website). Another week and the pinholes were healing up. Signs of nitrogen and potassium deficiencies were slowly going away but the stunted growth was still very much there. Went another week bringing me to today and really looked at the tank before doing my weekly water change. No pinholes remaining, Leaves look much healthier and fuller, but the stunted growth is still apparent. I have very little algae (only some minor stuff that gets on the glass that you can barely notice unless your nose is against the glass). So, again, I uped the amount to 40mL (2x the recommended dosing by EI website).

Now to my question, knowing what is going on as I described, am I troubleshooting my tank correctly and if so at what point should I attain the proper dose? Has anyone else seen this? At what point do I say, "thats an extreme dose?"

On a side note, I know I'm running very high light. Couldn't pass that deal up for $30. My dry ferts include KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4, CSM+B, PLANTEX + root tabs. According to EI ( https://www.thenutrientcompany.com/a...ei_calculator/ ), in order to reach a 20mL dose, I add:
KNO3 - 5 1/2 tsp
KH2PO4 - 1 1/8 tsp
K2SO4 - nothing (I added 1 1/8 tsp to the mixture anyway)
CSM+B - 1 1/4 tsp

If I forgot to mention or you have a question, I answer back fast.

Thanks again everyone.

Here's a current picture of my tank.
Attached Images
 

20 Gallon Long - Moderately/Heavily Planted
40 Breeder - In the Works

Last edited by Darkblade48; 02-01-2016 at 09:53 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
m_t_r_86 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-01-2016, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
m_t_r_86's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 70
No one has anything to say or add about this?

20 Gallon Long - Moderately/Heavily Planted
40 Breeder - In the Works
m_t_r_86 is offline  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-01-2016, 02:10 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Contra Costa CA
Posts: 11,721
Quote:
using this setup drops my pH by about 4.5
Quote:
pH-7.35(when lights are on) and pH-7.75(when lights are off),
This is only .4 of a drop, not 4.5. The first thing I would do is to seal the sump so the wet/dry cannot off gas the CO2.

I do not think you have as much CO2 as you think ("4.5 drop in pH"). The fish would be dead. There is obviously enough, the plants are doing fine.
Along those lines, the healthy growth and no more pin holes in the leaves suggests you are on the right track with the other nutrients.
What are the GH and KH test results?

I wonder if you are getting into too-high levels of micros. If you find you need to increase macros any more, I would not add more micros.

The zero or barely anything on the NO3 test is a good point. Calibrate the test kit to be sure it is accurate.

The low algae level is a helpful sign, but a single BN plec in that tank can clean up a lot of algae.

How long does your mix last? If you mix up your 5.5 tsp KNO3 etc, how long does it take to use it up?
Not sure about your ratios. Yours are not too far off, just a bit. Here is the EI recipe from the Fertilizer forum here at TPT for a 30 gallon set up, my notes in green.

Quote:
20~40gal
50% H20 change-weekly
1/4 Tsp-KN03 3x a week This is 4 times the KH2PO4, so yours is OK
1/16 Tsp-KH2P04 3x aweek
1/2 Tsp-GH booster once a week This is optional, depending on the GH of the water, but you can add a bit it you want. You have soft water fish, so I would not add very much, if any.
5ml or 1/16Tsp-Trace 3x a week Note that this does not specify a product, but is equal to the KH2PO4, your dose is higher.
Optional
1-2ml-Fe/Iron 3x a week Many people have found it helps to add iron at about 1/4 of the amount of traces, if the traces are from CSM+B
K2SO4 is not listed. Generally it is used when adding more KNO3 would raise the nitrate level higher than you want, but the plants still need more potassium. Since your NO3 is still low, you might use a bit less of this and up the KNO3 a bit more. See if you can get the NO3 a bit more obvious while not shorting the tank of potassium.
Diana is offline  
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-01-2016, 02:16 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
roadmaster's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Missouri united states
Posts: 5,576
Might reduce lighting period to eight hour's a day for couple week's were it me.
roadmaster is offline  
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-01-2016, 09:48 PM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
m_t_r_86's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana View Post
This is only .4 of a drop, not 4.5. The first thing I would do is to seal the sump so the wet/dry cannot off gas the CO2.

I do not think you have as much CO2 as you think ("4.5 drop in pH"). The fish would be dead. There is obviously enough, the plants are doing fine.
Along those lines, the healthy growth and no more pin holes in the leaves suggests you are on the right track with the other nutrients.
What are the GH and KH test results?

I wonder if you are getting into too-high levels of micros. If you find you need to increase macros any more, I would not add more micros.

The zero or barely anything on the NO3 test is a good point. Calibrate the test kit to be sure it is accurate.

The low algae level is a helpful sign, but a single BN plec in that tank can clean up a lot of algae.

How long does your mix last? If you mix up your 5.5 tsp KNO3 etc, how long does it take to use it up?
Not sure about your ratios. Yours are not too far off, just a bit. Here is the EI recipe from the Fertilizer forum here at TPT for a 30 gallon set up, my notes in green.


K2SO4 is not listed. Generally it is used when adding more KNO3 would raise the nitrate level higher than you want, but the plants still need more potassium. Since your NO3 is still low, you might use a bit less of this and up the KNO3 a bit more. See if you can get the NO3 a bit more obvious while not shorting the tank of potassium.
Sorry about the wrong math. You are right, it's only a drop of .4. Honestly have no idea what i was typing. The sump is partially covered. Only the return section is open. As for my mixture, It is mixed according to EI for a 20 gallon setup. Since I already had the mixture and didnt want to dump it out and make a new batch for a 30 gallon dose or a 40 gallon dose, I simply added a bit more of the 20 gallon mixture than needed. Started by increments of 5mL. So, a normal 20 gallon mixture dosing 3 days a week of each solution should last me 16 weeks. However, since I up'd the dose it will now only last me about 8 weeks per 500mL. The only reason I added the K2SO4 is because it came as apart of the package when I ordered the ferts off eBay. I will add a 1/2tsp of KNO3 to the mixture and continue dosing macros at 40mL and i'll reduce my micros back down to 25mL or 30mL. As for co2 gas exchange, I know its not as much as there should be, but it is DIY. Trust me, i wish my tax return would come in already so I can go pressurized!!! Thank you for replying. Was just curious if anyone else out there ran across something like this.

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
Might reduce lighting period to eight hour's a day for couple week's were it me.
I'll definitely reduce. I'll start by an hour less each week as to not shock the plants (not sure if that is possible but better safe than sorry). So, I'll start by dropping from 11hrs to 10 and so forth until I get the balance right. Thank you for replying.

20 Gallon Long - Moderately/Heavily Planted
40 Breeder - In the Works
m_t_r_86 is offline  
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-01-2016, 11:36 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,015
If you are mixing all of those chemicals into one fertilizer solution you are probably effectively dosing zero iron. Iron and phosphate in a concentrated mix like that combine into an insoluble precipitate, so they are not available to the plants. It is much better to use two solutions, with the trace element mix kept separate from the phosphate mix.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-02-2016, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
m_t_r_86's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 70
my trace and macros are in two different bottles and dosed on opposing days. i dose added seachem iron once to twice a week at 3ml per dose on trace dosing days as an added source of iron. also, i keep the solutions in my fridge to reduce the chance of mold and what not. sorry if i wrote it wrong.
m_t_r_86 is offline  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 01:45 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: SWFL
Posts: 18
Sorry to interrupt but newbie here... Where's a good place to buy these dry chemicals?
WaterGuy82 is offline  
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-03-2016, 02:18 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
quiquik's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Crown Point,In.
Posts: 389
Check in the for sale section you will find some there.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
I Seek The White Whale!
quiquik is online now  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome