Dry Ferts? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-04-2010, 11:35 PM Thread Starter
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Dry Ferts?

i recently purchased dry ferts of N P K CSM + B and GH booster
i'm supposed to dose
50% H20 change-weekly
1/4 Tsp-KN03 3x a week
1/16 Tsp-KH2P04 3x aweek
1/2 Tsp-GH booster once a week
5ml or 1/16Tsp-Trace 3x a week
Optional
1-2ml-Fe/Iron 3x a week
and divide this by half for a 10 gallon but how do i put these amounts in my tank? do i simply drop the powder right into the tank or what? i also have a 16oz dosing container en route how is this used
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 12:01 AM
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I have a pint jar, i just scoop out a 1/2 pint of tank water then add the dry ferts, give it a couple of good swirls then dump back in the tank.


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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 12:07 AM
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I just dump the dry ferts directly into the tank it won't hurt the fish or the plants and is easier than making solutions or mixing it in cups of water.

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 01:10 AM
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The problem is measuring such small quantities, like 1/32 tsp. That is where the 16 oz fertilizer bottle helps. Just multiply each dosage by 16, and add that much of them to the bottle. (Don't add CSM+B to the bottle because it will combine with the H2PO4 and precipitate out the iron.) Now, fill the bottle with water and shake it up to dissolve the powders. Dose 1 oz of the solution each time - the bottle contains 16 doses. Either use a separate bottle for the CSM+B or use a liquid trace element mix like Flourish.

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 01:24 AM
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Hey Hoppy I have always wondered about the optional Iron.....Is there a significant (if any) source of Iron in CSM+B? I have been wanting to start adding Iron to my tank, but the "1-2ml" throws me off. 1-2ml of what, Flourish Iron?
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 01:26 AM Thread Starter
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can i include the GH booster in that 16oz bottle to supply the K2SO4
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 03:25 AM
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The 1-2 ml measurement is for something like Flourish or Tropica Plant Nutrition Lliquid. Or, you can make a liquid trace mix by mixing 1 tablespoon of CSM+B in 250 ml of water, and substitute that for the Flourish. CSM+B contains enough iron to meet the plants needs. Some people dose more iron, but way back when CSM+B was first being sold as an aquatic plant fertilizer Greg Watson tried doubling the amount of iron in it, and found that it made no difference to the plants.
You can't add enough GH booster to that same bottle because a normal dose of it won't dissolve in one ounce of water. You probably don't even need a GH booster. Your water company report should state how much calcium and magnesium is in their tap water. I'm not sure what the minimum amount should be, but I think any GH over 80 ppm or so, is adequate, as long as there is some magnesium in the water too. GH booster also has K2SO4, but you get plenty of K in the KNO3 you should dose.

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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 11:37 AM
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Ahhh gotcha. Exactly what I was looking for on the Iron.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-05-2010, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
The problem is measuring such small quantities, like 1/32 tsp. That is where the 16 oz fertilizer bottle helps. Just multiply each dosage by 16, and add that much of them to the bottle. (Don't add CSM+B to the bottle because it will combine with the H2PO4 and precipitate out the iron.) Now, fill the bottle with water and shake it up to dissolve the powders. Dose 1 oz of the solution each time - the bottle contains 16 doses. Either use a separate bottle for the CSM+B or use a liquid trace element mix like Flourish.
O ye of little faith ... the easiest way to measure 1/32 is with this:

[ http://www.pleasanthillgrain.com/mea...id_volume.aspx ] then scroll down to the "Norpro Mini Measuring Spoons"

That's what I use and it's much faster than mixing solutions when your dealing with 30+ tanks. Been there done that.

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-09-2010, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
Some people dose more iron, but way back when CSM+B was first being sold as an aquatic plant fertilizer Greg Watson tried doubling the amount of iron in it, and found that it made no difference to the plants.
Hoppy is one of the people you can trust absolutely ... so I am a little uncomfortable disagreeing with him <grin> ...

So I want to expand on what he wrote above <g> ... way back when dinosaurs like me roamed the earth <g> ... ok, not quite that long ago ... I was dosing a LOT more Iron that most people ... in fact, I routinely was doubling the amount of Iron ...

What Hoppy is referring to ... is that I tried an experimental combination of Plantex CSM with Extra Iron ... the problem was that the extra Iron came in the form of an EDTP chelated iron.

You can scan the forum here for all of the arguments on both sides of which kind of chelator works best blah blah blah <grin> ...

So what Hoppy is referring to is my experiemental version of CSM Plus Extra Iron which was not the success that I was "hoppying" for <grin> ... ok, bad pun <grin> ...

I still believe that most people will find better success with higher Iron dosing levels.

From a purely commercial perspective (i.e. forget any nitpicking arguments about PH, GH, etc.) ... if Seachem finds it commercially viable to sell "Flourish Iron" then I would argue that we can accept that there are very legitimate circumstances where it is beneficial to dose extra Iron ...

If you are willing to pay commercial prices ... Seachem Flourish Iron is absolutely a fantastic product ...

However, if you want a more do-it-yourself approach ... then we have to explore what DIY alternatives are available. Chelated Iron comes in a variety of formulations - with particular differences in what chelator is used ... and different chelators perform differently based on water conditions ...

In general - when Hoppy says my CSM plus Extra Iron was not a rip roaring success ... the explanation of why is not that the extra iron wasn't beneficial, but whether it was readily available to the plants in differing water quality environments ... and it was that inconsistent performance in different water quality environments that I did not advocate for my extra Iron version ...

I knew it worked for me ... I love extra Iron ...

Whenever I want that "extra sparkle" in a tank ... for example, right before a show or exhibition, I will always juice up the Iron ...

If you are not getting the results you want with Iron - check the chelator you are using, if EDTP, try a DHTP Iron chelate... or vice-versa ...

I personally like Spring 330 - a very common 10% DHTP Iron Chelate ... for me it works well. But I have almost always lived in environments where I have really hard water (generically speaking).

Generically speaking ... those of us with hard water are going to generically speaking have more difficulties with Iron and Iron chelates ...

Add CO2, and all kinds of acid impacts from driftwood and all of the wildly varying other things that we do to our aquariums <grin> ... and it rapidly becomes difficult at best to make generic assumptions about what works best in what kind of environment <grin> ...

In biblical terms ... as for me and my house, until I move to a different location where my water conditions change, we will always follow the path towards more Iron <grin> ...

Hopefully my post is both humorous and mildly informational ...

Different things work differently for different people ... my plants and I like Iron - yum yum and I believe in feeding my plants a well balanced diet with all of the basic food groups including funky minerals (humans often think of as vitamins) like Iron ...

Now its' time for this old geezer to take his Centrum Silver Ultra Men's vitamins ... which includes Calcium Carbonate, magnesium, zinc, and a lot of other minerals - ironically without the Iron .... hmmmmm ... something seems wrong here <grin>!!!

But you know ... they do sound a lot like the same micro-nutrients we feed our plants!!!

Greg Watson


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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2010, 06:12 AM
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5ml or 1/16Tsp-Trace 3x a week

Sorry guys, but I'm really stumped on what this means. Can someone shed some light? Do I dose 5ml or 1/16Tsp? Those values aren't even close so it's very confusing.
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2010, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GregWatson View Post
Hoppy is one of the people you can trust absolutely ... so I am a little uncomfortable disagreeing with him <grin> ...

So I want to expand on what he wrote above <g> ... way back when dinosaurs like me roamed the earth <g> ... ok, not quite that long ago ... I was dosing a LOT more Iron that most people ... in fact, I routinely was doubling the amount of Iron ...

What Hoppy is referring to ... is that I tried an experimental combination of Plantex CSM with Extra Iron ... the problem was that the extra Iron came in the form of an EDTP chelated iron.

You can scan the forum here for all of the arguments on both sides of which kind of chelator works best blah blah blah <grin> ...

So what Hoppy is referring to is my experiemental version of CSM Plus Extra Iron which was not the success that I was "hoppying" for <grin> ... ok, bad pun <grin> ...

I still believe that most people will find better success with higher Iron dosing levels.

From a purely commercial perspective (i.e. forget any nitpicking arguments about PH, GH, etc.) ... if Seachem finds it commercially viable to sell "Flourish Iron" then I would argue that we can accept that there are very legitimate circumstances where it is beneficial to dose extra Iron ...

If you are willing to pay commercial prices ... Seachem Flourish Iron is absolutely a fantastic product ...

However, if you want a more do-it-yourself approach ... then we have to explore what DIY alternatives are available. Chelated Iron comes in a variety of formulations - with particular differences in what chelator is used ... and different chelators perform differently based on water conditions ...

In general - when Hoppy says my CSM plus Extra Iron was not a rip roaring success ... the explanation of why is not that the extra iron wasn't beneficial, but whether it was readily available to the plants in differing water quality environments ... and it was that inconsistent performance in different water quality environments that I did not advocate for my extra Iron version ...

I knew it worked for me ... I love extra Iron ...

Whenever I want that "extra sparkle" in a tank ... for example, right before a show or exhibition, I will always juice up the Iron ...

If you are not getting the results you want with Iron - check the chelator you are using, if EDTP, try a DHTP Iron chelate... or vice-versa ...

I personally like Spring 330 - a very common 10% DHTP Iron Chelate ... for me it works well. But I have almost always lived in environments where I have really hard water (generically speaking).

Generically speaking ... those of us with hard water are going to generically speaking have more difficulties with Iron and Iron chelates ...

Add CO2, and all kinds of acid impacts from driftwood and all of the wildly varying other things that we do to our aquariums <grin> ... and it rapidly becomes difficult at best to make generic assumptions about what works best in what kind of environment <grin> ...

In biblical terms ... as for me and my house, until I move to a different location where my water conditions change, we will always follow the path towards more Iron <grin> ...

Hopefully my post is both humorous and mildly informational ...

Different things work differently for different people ... my plants and I like Iron - yum yum and I believe in feeding my plants a well balanced diet with all of the basic food groups including funky minerals (humans often think of as vitamins) like Iron ...

Now its' time for this old geezer to take his Centrum Silver Ultra Men's vitamins ... which includes Calcium Carbonate, magnesium, zinc, and a lot of other minerals - ironically without the Iron .... hmmmmm ... something seems wrong here <grin>!!!

But you know ... they do sound a lot like the same micro-nutrients we feed our plants!!!

Greg Watson
Thank you Greg, I stand corrected. And, I'm still using the CSM+B+extra Fe that I got from you a few years ago.

While we are on the subject: if you had continued selling these ferts I'll bet we would all be buying Tom Barr's version of trace element mixes by now.

Hoppy
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2010, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phan10ms View Post
5ml or 1/16Tsp-Trace 3x a week

Sorry guys, but I'm really stumped on what this means. Can someone shed some light? Do I dose 5ml or 1/16Tsp? Those values aren't even close so it's very confusing.
This was written when everyone was using CSM+B premixed with water to substitute for the much more expensive Flourish and other commercial trace element mixes. So, the 5 ml is the amount of the premixed CSM+B in water, and the 1/16 tsp is for dosing CSM+B dry.

Hoppy
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-13-2010, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
This was written when everyone was using CSM+B premixed with water to substitute for the much more expensive Flourish and other commercial trace element mixes. So, the 5 ml is the amount of the premixed CSM+B in water, and the 1/16 tsp is for dosing CSM+B dry.
Thank you.
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