Large plants are dying a slow horrible death. Please help! - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
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Large plants are dying a slow horrible death. Please help!

Hi guys,

I am brand new to the forum, and have come across this site for reference in the past. It's been very helpful.

What I am struggling is having a balanced dosing to prevent losing large and small leaves. Attaches are some pictures. As you can see, the Dwarf Baby Tears, Crypts, and Anubias are doing fine. It's the moneywart, large Amazon swords, and the larger java fern leaves that just dies off slowly.


Current Tank (4 months old) Detail:
1. 55 gallon with 2x300W heater, 2xWhisper EX70 HOB filter, planted substrate
2. Tank mates: 15 Nerite snails (horned and zebra), 40 shrimps and breeding (red cherry, bee, and amanos), 3x Otos, 10 Neon tetra, 3 dwarf puffer, 2xSAE, 10xRummynose tetra, 6 zebra danios
3. Lighting: Finnex Ray 2 (5hrs/day) + Finnex MonsterRay (5hrs/day)
4. Dosing regiment: exactly as the following except I don't add anything for Day 7:
http://www.seachem.com/support/PlantDoseChart.pdf
5. Water change: 20% weekly
6. CO2, in the process of acquiring a system. Currently, I dose 10mL of Flourish Excel daily.
7. 4 piece Malaysian Driftwood (boiled in water for 30 minutes before introducing to the tank)
8. Plant temperature: 78F

Issue:
Inconsistent growth on my plants. My large Amazon swords leaves have all browned and melted off, and all my moneywart's leaves have browned and fallen off except for the top. My dwarf hair grass is thriving, so are my Anubias and Java Fern. But now my large leave Java Fern are also dying... but other Java fern are still reproducing.



Questions:
1. Someone mentioned that I have too much light, so I reduced from the 8hr Ray2+9hr Monster combination with my lights to 5hr+5 hr... not too much changed....is it really too much light?


2. What am I doing wrong? Just nutrient deficiency or CO2 deficiency...someone mentioned Potassium def? I feel I am going through the 500mL of Seachem products pretty quickly.


3. On my picture of dwarf hairgrass... I see fuzzy algae lookalike... is it something I should be worried about (guessing hair algae), and why does it only grow inside a bunched up hair grass?



Thank you.

Felix
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 02:17 AM
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Cut off all the dead and dying leaves, get yourself some dry ferts.

Also Anubius rizome should not be buried in the substrate its okay to put the roots in the substrate but not the rizome.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 02:22 AM
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How long are you running your lights? My guess is somewhere 10+ hours, am I right?

Oops didn't read fully. Yes top much light. You don't have enough plant mass either.
You will be fine with one of those lights for 7 hours a day for now. Once you get it planted more y than add the other light.

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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 05:16 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys. Just to clarify, I am running:

Finnex Ray 2 (On for 2 hrs, off for 4 hrs, on for 3 hrs.) Total 5 hrs.
Finnex Monster Ray(Same as above).

So both lights are on for 5 hrs. a day simultaneously. I will cut my lights to running Finnex Ray 2 for 5hrs only and see what happens. At least before I get my CO2.

Question to Caique (I am in Fremont, CA BTW)... I have one type of Anubias (picture 3) tied to the driftwood, and the other broader leave buried in the substrate for 4 months. For some reason, the broader leave Anubias (picture 4) seem to multiply quickly buried in the substrate. Maybe I miss-IDed my plant. The root does not look like regular Anubis (thick green horizontal stem), but more white and thin.

And yes.... time to trim some dead leaves.

Felix C.
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-12-2016, 08:16 PM
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You have about 65-70 PAR from just the Ray 2 light fixture. The Monster Ray produces even more light. So, just the Ray 2 gives you high light, where pressurized CO2 is essential. I suspect your plants are stunted from lack of carbon. The photos don't look particularly bad to me, so if you can get the CO2 system going soon enough you may get an explosion of plant growth. Just be sure to dose the full EI amounts when you get the CO2 going.

Hoppy
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-13-2016, 01:08 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Hoppy,
Can you confirm your numbers? I thought Finnex Ray 2 has higher PAR value than the Monster Ray. I have both the 48" version for my 55 gallon. The two links below shows a single light and combined light PAR value (still too high, I know)
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/14...-par-data.html
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/14...-par-data.html

My main question is:
1. How much PAR should I really be using?
2. If I were to use both lights for 8hrs, do I just crank up my CO2 to match (without poisoning my fish of course)?
3. For EI dosing, should I follow what's written on the bottle of Seachem when I introduce CO2? Currently, I am actually doubling the recommended dose due to lack of CO2 and so much light. Would I be reducing back to normal range once the CO2 is introduced?

Thanks.

Felix C.

By the way Hoppy. Love the PAR value explanation you posted in 2012.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10...ead-watts.html

Felix C.

Last edited by Darkblade48; 01-14-2016 at 04:00 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-13-2016, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Thanks Hoppy,
Can you confirm your numbers? I thought Finnex Ray 2 has higher PAR value than the Monster Ray. I have both the 48" version for my 55 gallon. The two links below shows a single light and combined light PAR value (still too high, I know)
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/14...-par-data.html
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/14...-par-data.html

My main question is:
1. How much PAR should I really be using?
2. If I were to use both lights for 8hrs, do I just crank up my CO2 to match (without poisoning my fish of course)?
3. For EI dosing, should I follow what's written on the bottle of Seachem when I introduce CO2? Currently, I am actually doubling the recommended dose due to lack of CO2 and so much light. Would I be reducing back to normal range once the CO2 is introduced?

Thanks.

Felix C.
You are right - the Monster Ray only gives you around 20 PAR at that distance. If you want to use high light the Ray 2 would be high light. Add the Monster Ray and it is even higher light. Either way you would need to adjust your CO2 bubble rate until you have the highest concentration of CO2 in the water that your fish are comfortable with. And, you will need to dose all of the nutrients the plants need to grow at the rate the light is driving them to, or you will face almost certain constant algae attacks. You won't want to use Seachem's line of fertilizers because of the very high cost. Instead, read https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11...-regimes_.html and dose according to the tables there. You will also want to be very strict with yourself about doing a thorough job of weekly tank cleaning. If possible you will want to use every technique you can to keep as much dissolved oxygen in the water as possible, to help the fish be comfortable with the high CO2 level.

If you limit your light to about 40-45 PAR you might be able to use just Excel or Metricide as a carbon source, and still get good growth of your plants, with far less stringent tank maintenance.

Hoppy
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-14-2016, 12:20 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the fast response Hoppy!

From your link, I will follow the below listing.
1. Is there a brand of powder you would recommend or avoid?
2. Is trace listed below refer to Micro nutrient?
3. Is there something else I need to add to the tank besides the below and CO2 (I see Potassium, Nitrate, Phosphate, Iron, and trace)?
4. Do I need to dose CSM+B on top of the below (I see majority makeup is iron, so that would be doubling up)?

40~60gal
50% H20 change-weekly
1/2 Tsp-KN03 3x a week
1/8 Tsp-KH2P04 3x a week
3/4 Tsp-GH booster once a week
10ml or 1/8Tsp-Trace 3x a week
Optional
2-4ml-Fe/Iron 3x a week

Felix C.
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 01-14-2016, 03:44 AM
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CSM+B is a trace element mix, and it is the one in use when the tables were developed. You can dose all of those powders dry if you use a set of tiny measuring spoons.

These are all agricultural quality chemicals, normally sold in very large bags, but today there are many internet stores that sell them in 1 pound bags. One very good "store" is in our For Sale Forum, https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/15...7Cials%7C.html which is where I got my last batch.

Hoppy
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Tags
anubias, crypts, dwarf baby tears, plant melting, seachem dosing

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