Is there such a thing as too much calcium? - The Planted Tank Forum
 10Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 01:52 AM Thread Starter
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Arcadia, CA
Posts: 149
Is there such a thing as too much calcium?

I've been giving my shrimp and snails a tablet of calcium supplement I bought online. I think it's just human calcium supplement. But I'm wondering if this will affect the water chemistry?

Is there such a thing as too much calcium?




To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MassiveDynamic17 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 02:12 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (6/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: US
Posts: 2,863
I don't know for a fact, but I assume way too much calcium would make your General Hardness really high. In which case, it has been said with water too hard, the snails and shrimps' shell/exoskeleton would grow/"thicken" too much, crushing it to death on the inside.
WaterLife is offline  
post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 02:49 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Contra Costa CA
Posts: 11,721
Plants need a balance of calcium and magnesium. They generally use these 2 minerals in a ratio of about 4 parts calcium: 1 part magnesium. The water does not have to have exactly this ratio, but something reasonably close is good.

Read the actual ingredients on the mineral supplement. It is highly likely calcium carbonate.
Calcium carbonate dissolves in water best when the water is acidic. It adds calcium and carbonates to the water. Calcium is part of the GH test. Carbonates are tested with the KH test.

So...

If the water is somewhat alkaline, then the calcium carbonate will dissolve slowly, and not really affect the water chemistry much. If the water is somewhat alkaline, then there is probably enough calcium and carbonates in the water, and your tank probably does not need the supplement. Won't hurt, though. Just add a little Epsom salt or other source of magnesium to balance the calcium. It won't take much.
If the water is acidic then the calcium carbonate will dissolve faster and you will notice this in water tests (GH and KH, and highly likely pH). As these values rise the calcium carbonate will dissolve slower. If the calcium is so low that the plants or livestock are deficient, then adding calcium will help. I would also add magnesium. If the Ca is that low, then the Mg probably is pretty low, too.

There are other forms of calcium supplement for people. If yours is something other than calcium carbonate, I do not know how it will act in the tank.

There are other calcium supplements for aquariums.
If the GH is too low, I would supplement with a GH booster that has both Ca and Mg. Something like Seachem Equilibrium or Barr's GH booster. Read the label on any product you find. Make sure it does not have salt (Sodium chloride).

If you can find out if your water has an unusual balance between Ca and Mg then you might want to dose just one of these (whichever is too low). Perhaps the water quality report from your water company has this information.
Audionut and Audionut like this.
Diana is offline  
 
post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 03:03 AM
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Toronto ON Canada
Posts: 78
There IS such a thing as too much...

The argument (or rather counter-argument) is, if there is never too much potassium in a planted tank, just dump a few cups of K2SO4. See?

The question is always, how much is too much, causing negative effect, given a set of parameters?
max88 is offline  
post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 04:44 AM
Algae Grower
 
childofiam@att.net's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 47
One of the best articles I refer to for help on water chemistry for Aquariums.

Aquarium Chemistry | Calcium & KH & GH & pH & Electrolytes (ions)
"In freshwater aquariums I recommend a minimum of 100 ppm of calcium (which a GH of 100+ ppm will generally provide)"
WATER HARDNESS -- CALCIUM &[censored] MAGNESIUM
Here is the whole article and there is a section talking about shrimp too...
Aquarium Chemistry | Calcium & KH & GH & pH & Electrolytes (ions)
WaterLife and WaterLife like this.

75 Gal High Tech Planted tank, 37 gal Low Tech
Planted tank
post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 05:37 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Queensland
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
One of the best articles I refer to for help on water chemistry for Aquariums.
The author more interested in selling stuff.

Quote:
This said, despite the popular use of crushed coral/Aragonite for pH/KH control in African Cichlids, it is a poor choice for this, especially in high bio load aquariums due to the FACT of its mineral make up.
Simply put, you CANNOT make a mineral appear out of nowhere that does not exist and that seems to be what many mistakenly believe when using crushed coral to increase KH/pH.
This is an unfortunate “aquatic myth” that many forums still perpetuate when a quick search of the chemical makeup of crushed coral would expose this folly.
This is brain dead stupid.

Feel free to edit.
Audionut is offline  
post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 05:58 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (6/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: US
Posts: 2,863
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
One of the best articles I refer to for help on water chemistry for Aquariums.

WATER HARDNESS -- CALCIUM &[censored] MAGNESIUM

Aquarium Chemistry | Calcium & KH & GH & pH & Electrolytes (ions)
+100000000000000!!!!!!!!

The americanaquariumproducts.com website is the most informational aquarium website I have come across as well. Tons and tons of in-depth info, with lots of scientific studies backing it. And even the anecdotal information holds a lot of weight coming from someone who knows so much about all the variables (things that many people don't even know exist or are relevant) that may come into play when noting things as an experience.

Great, great website to research from. I recommend reading through the whole website. Even click on the links that lead you to even more information (other informative websites, the creators blog page and more).

Read up on everything, medications, diseases, redox, osmoregulation, diet/nutrition, UV's and so, so, so much more.

All that great info will help everyone understand the things that take place in our aquariums and know how to take better care of our fish.

I can't recommend that site enough! It should really be a go to source for anyone serious about learning.

Of course, I still recommend researching from multiple sources and not solely trusting one source of information. I can't say everything is 100% correct on the site, but it is pretty apparent most of the information is well researched (I have researched the research to see if things check out and they do) and pretty much everything I have read so far (no I haven't read everything) has been correct.

Last edited by WaterLife; 12-23-2015 at 06:12 AM. Reason: .
WaterLife is offline  
post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 06:07 AM
Algae Grower
 
childofiam@att.net's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 47
[QUOTE=Audionut;8709737]The author more interested in selling stuff.

The Author has dedicated his life to biochemistry. His is not a hobbyist, he's a professional researcher. There are many biochemist in the top of their field who endorse Carl Strohmeyer in his writings of Aquarium Chemistry.
If you take the time to read his article... you will see that at no point is he trying to sell anything.

75 Gal High Tech Planted tank, 37 gal Low Tech
Planted tank
post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 06:24 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Queensland
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
he's a professional researcher.
Then he should be aware of the chemical reaction between CaCO3, CO2 and H2O.

H2O + CO2 + CaCO3 <> Ca + 2HCO3.

He goes on to show his lack of understanding (or Seachem selling skills (pick one)) regarding the carbonate buffering system here.

Quote:
Baking Soda (NaHCO3): Is essentially just Sodium bicarbonate and will raise KH, but it can easily be overdosed and does not maintain as a stable a KH or pH
Quote:
SeaChem Alkaline Buffer: This is more straight forward KH buffer that has less added minerals when these are not desired (often by planted or softwater aquarium keepers). Alkaline Buffer will continue to increase pH to 7.8 (or as high as 8.5 with correct usage), however it still is more stable and moves pH much less dramatically than baking soda making it still a much better choice in FW.
Seachem. Alkaline Buffer
Quote:
Alkaline Buffer™ is a non-phosphate buffer designed to raise pH and alkalinity (KH)
There are two buffer systems in our freshwater tanks. Phosphate based and (bi)carbonate based.

There are so many links to Seachem based products scattered throughout his articles, I'll reserve my opinion thanks.


edit: Here is some more nonsense.

Quote:
It is also noteworthy that a GH test is not always an accurate measure of positive calcium and other mineral ions (cations), as with many Ammonia test kits, which are inaccurate after using products such as Prime and give false positive for ammonia NH3 as they cannot discern the difference between the NH3 and NH4+.
The same can be said for GH tests that may show a high GH when in reality all positive calcium ions are depleted due to Redox balancing, which is why one MUST constantly supply these mineral cations by whatever means, whether by regular water changes (which often are not enough, especially in small aquariums) or by use of mineral replenishers such as Wonder Shells (which will throw off accurate readings of GH test kits due to their constant supply of positive mineral ions such as calcium!!!).
Think about it for a second. Throw a [censored][censored][censored][censored]load of shell grit in the tank. Does GH rise? Why not?

GH test kits can only measure free divalent cations in the water. If they are free......................
58417, 58417, OldMember and 1 others like this.

Feel free to edit.
Audionut is offline  
post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 06:52 AM
Algae Grower
 
childofiam@att.net's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audionut View Post
Then he should be aware of the chemical reaction between CaCO3, CO2 and H2O.

H2O + CO2 + CaCO3 <> Ca + 2HCO3.

He goes on to show his lack of understanding (or Seachem selling skills (pick one)) regarding the carbonate buffering system here.





Seachem. Alkaline Buffer


There are two buffer systems in our freshwater tanks. Phosphate based and (bi)carbonate based.

There are so many links to Seachem based products scattered throughout his articles, I'll reserve my opinion thanks.


edit: Here is some more nonsense.



Think about it for a second. Throw a [censored][censored][censored][censored]load of shell grit in the tank. Does GH rise? Why not?

GH test kits can only measure free divalent cations in the water. If they are free......................
WOW... You must be really smart. Can I read your research....

75 Gal High Tech Planted tank, 37 gal Low Tech
Planted tank
post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 07:02 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Queensland
Posts: 525
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
WOW... You must be really smart. Can I read your research....
Here's a few.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbonate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calcium_carbonate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffer_solution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjerrum_plot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkalinity

What you're really after though is a flashy piece of paper that says I'm smart. Then you don't have to understand the processes yourself, you can just blindly accept my advice. One of these, I do not have.

But best of luck champ!!
OldMember and OldMember like this.

Feel free to edit.
Audionut is offline  
post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-23-2015, 07:27 AM
Algae Grower
 
childofiam@att.net's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 47
What you're really after though is a flashy piece of paper that says I'm smart. Then you don't have to understand the processes yourself, you can just blindly accept my advice. One of these, I do not have.

But best of luck champ!![/QUOTE]

No... What I am really after is correct research. It seemed to me that you where very educated... I simply ask for your research, not links to wikipedia which is wrong information most of the time, submitted by people that take things they read and submitted it incorrectly.
I took the time to look up "Carl Strohmeyer" who wrote the article, he is one of the top biologist in his field. If he is misguided then he has fooled a lot of very smart people over many years.
A lot of professional individuals who maintain aquariums, both salt and fresh water for business lean on his research.

Yes there are links to seachem products BUT there are also many links to other products. Carl even mentioned that he used API products in his research and even mentioned products he preferred over seachem.
If you can get past the mentioning of sachem products then you will find out that his research is backed up by many experts in the Aquatic field.

Please forgive me if I offended you...

75 Gal High Tech Planted tank, 37 gal Low Tech
Planted tank
post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-24-2015, 03:36 AM
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Queensland
Posts: 525
Proper explanation would require a chemistry lesson in ions, ion bonding, cations/anions, various chemical elements, carbonate buffer, pH. That's a few off the top of my head.

I do plan on detailing these processes in somewhat of a simple manner at some stage for the members of this forum, but that's not today, and not for someone who can spend time "looking up people", instead of looking up knowledge.

I provided some links above that will help you to gain some understanding on the subjects at hand. If wikipedia isn't your thing, then try opening that search page you used to check the credentials of your mate at AAP, and instead, use it to find the sources of information you do consider reliable.

I'm more then happy to answer questions regarding chemistry and how it affects our aquariums, whether they be detailed or very basic questions, as it is the answering of these questions that helps to further my understanding of the subjects, and increases the collective knowledge of all involved. But I'm not going to entertain further someone who is vehemently defending the character of someone he doesn't even know.

People have opinions mate, and they often differ. Cheers.
58417, 58417, OldMember and 1 others like this.

Feel free to edit.
Audionut is offline  
post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-25-2015, 04:48 AM
Algae Grower
 
childofiam@att.net's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 47
"spend time "looking up people", instead of looking up knowledge"

I stopped listening to people who, like you, speak as if they have "The only correct knowledge" and everyone else was wrong. This is when I started "Looking Up People to see their credentials" to teach others, as well as to see who they are endorsed by."

I am looking forward to your lesson unless you only share it with the Member of this form. If you don't share this "Knowledge" publicly, then that tells me your not worth listening to and only a fool would listen to you behind closed doors in private. If what you have to say is backed up by real research, real biologist then I will listen to you, but I will expect real peoples names and their field of study.

Remember Mate, Opinions are what they are, Opinions! ... Opinions are not Truth and Knowledge without truth... is a dangerous thing! Without truth anyone can be easily deceived...

75 Gal High Tech Planted tank, 37 gal Low Tech
Planted tank
post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 12-25-2015, 08:51 AM
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Europe
Posts: 200
Truth vs. opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Remember Mate, Opinions are what they are, Opinions! ... Opinions are not Truth and Knowledge without truth... is a dangerous thing! Without truth anyone can be easily deceived...
Right! This is the reason why you should be aware when someone (whoever it is - even some "guru") is presenting you some pseudo-scientific piece of information like K.Strohmeyer or T.Barr. If all the information on the website is "scientific" as you say, please, can you give me any links to scientific papers which support it? I found just one link to a university source of information in the whole article (+ one more link to a picture on some edu site), the rest being self-citation links to americanaquariumproducts.com site or commercial stuff. I think you do much better reading the "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" by Diana Walstad, as this is an excellent example of scientific information backed up by great many scientific papers. Also, I hope you can show me any "real" research paper of well-documented experiment by K.Strohmeyer or T.Barr. I did not find one yet.
Audionut and Audionut like this.
58417 is offline  
Reply

Tags
calcium

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome