csm+b nutrient content - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 03:11 AM Thread Starter
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csm+b nutrient content

Could someone provide me with the nutrient content of CSM+B? Looking for the following:
Fe %
Mg %
B %
Mn %
Mo %
Cu %
Zn%

I found info on an aquarium fertilizer website but when I calculate the expected ppm it does not match what generates from the fertilizer calculators on the web. Does the % depend on the supplier? Thanks for your help

Edit: I found the following after I changed my web search to Plantex instead of csm+b. Could someone verify that Boron of 1.18% is correct? Based on my calculations this value does not match the ppm value generated by the fertilizer calculators.
Fe 6.53%
Mn 1.87%
Mg 1.40%
Zn 0.37%
Cu 0.09%
Mo 0.05%
B 1.18%

Last edited by rhiro; 11-23-2015 at 03:23 AM. Reason: grammer correction
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 03:19 AM
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Yes, it depends on the supplier who adds the B. The percentages on AF may not be accurate.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 03:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcielo lawrencia View Post
Yes, it depends on the supplier who adds the B. The percentages on AF may not be accurate.
Thanks. For B I also found it listed at 0.04%. When I used the value generated from the fertilizer calculators and worked backwards I came out with a value of 0.809%. These numbers are quite different.
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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 04:14 AM
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The values for B differs from supplier. The calculators do not account for this.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 04:25 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solcielo lawrencia View Post
The values for B differs from supplier. The calculators do not account for this.
I noticed you are quite active on the toxicity thread. Does B have any potential toxic effects?
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 11-23-2015, 04:36 AM
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Yes, B-tox is possible, and it's a very narrow range between optimal and toxic concentrations.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2015, 01:58 AM
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Per the Nutritrace website, that the CSM+B is sourced from(minus the B),( the first list below) shows the percentages, yet an email from Orlando of Greenleaf Aquariums gave me the exact same percentages except he states that 0.04% of it was Boron. The percentages could not stay the same with added Boron, so I did some research and came upon this discussion on the Barreport about this very issue. Thankfully Biollante from the thread already figured out the correct percentages with the added Boron, granted this assumes that the Mix from Greenleaf is the same as Aquarium Fertilizer.com of 25:1 ratio of CSM and Boron from Na2B8013 * 4H2O I will have to contact Orlando once more and get this straight.

This is what Greenleaf Aquariums claimed in an email to me:
Fe 7.0%
Mn 2.0%
Cu 0.1%
Mg 1.5%
Zn 0.4%
Mo 0.06
B 0.04


And this is what the thread on the Barreport shows
25:1 and Na2B8013 * 4H2O from Aquarium Fertilizer.com

B 0.8%
Cu 0.096%
Fe 6.731%
Mg 1.442%
Mn 1.923%
Mo 0.058%
Zn 0.385%

If either one of these is correct than all the online calculators should be wrong?

Below are the links for the company that makes and sells Nutritrace CSM Mix and the thread that has the discussion and corrected percentages.

http://americanhort.com/ahs_product/plant-csm-25/


http://www.barrreport.com/forum/barr...ex-csm-b/page3

Last edited by Silversea; 12-02-2015 at 05:53 AM. Reason: Updated/Corrected information.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2015, 03:00 AM
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2015, 03:31 AM Thread Starter
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@Silversea, Yes I did see the manufactures website and also a post by Zorfox that lists the % of ingredients for Plantex according to what you have posted but that is just for CSM. I saw a forum post that quoted a reply from a supplier of aquarium fertilizer that their company adds 1 lb of B to 25 lbs CSM. Consequently the % composition of CSM+B is different from CSM only. I am not a scientist but I believe this should be true for all suppliers as any addition of B should reduce the % composition of the nutrients. I am not interested in working out the math and will assume the % I had listed in my first post is close to being correct as these numbers are listed in numerous instances on the web. However as I had questioned above I did find different values for B which it appears is dependent on the supplier preparing the mix.

In regards to the online calculators being wrong, I used the 2 recent calculators that were developed after Wet's became unavailable and worked backwards from the result and came up with .81% and 1.18% for B. If my math is wrong the developers of these calculators are members of TPT and they or anyone else on this forum can correct me.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by yakal View Post
Thanks for the thread link. I did read a lot of this thread and this is what got me interested in finding the composition of CSM+B so I could at the minimum determine the concentration of each nutrient I am adding. I am also testing my tanks with reduced CSM+B to see if my plants have better growth.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2015, 05:21 AM
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@rhiro sorry for the confusion, you are correct about the percentages of the other nutrients in CSM+B being off if Boron were added to it, so I did some checking and have corrected my previous post on the matter. I too am following the CSM+B toxicity thread with great interest and am currently investigating it with my own tank. Hope to hear from Orlando soon so we can at least know that both CSM+B mixes are the same, be it from Aquarium Fertilizer.com or Greenleaf Aquariums. Knowing the exact makeup and percentages would really help in the quest to find what amounts of trace to dose to avoid possible toxicity.

Last edited by Silversea; 12-02-2015 at 05:50 AM. Reason: Ammend
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-02-2015, 05:50 AM Thread Starter
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No problem @Silversea. The Barreport thread is the same one I used.
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