Flourish Line - Verifying numbers - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-05-2015, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
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Flourish Line - Verifying numbers

Hi Everyone,

I have a heavily planted 12 gallon but I was just modifying my dosing numbers. The water volume in the tank is roughly 11 gallons, so I used that in my formula instead of 12.

I want to verify my numbers using the Flourish line of products. Could use a second set of eyes to see if my numbers are correct. I based it off the EI targets:

Target:
NO3 5 ppm
K+ 10 ppm
PO4 2.0 ppm

My end result was:
2x Weekly: 4.5 mL of Phosphorus
2x Weekly: 4.5 mL of Potassium
2x Weekly: 1.4 mL of Nitrogen

You can see my full dosing schedule here: http://i.imgur.com/8Ke4Va5.jpg
Also seachem has their dosing calculator here: http://www.seachem.com/support/Calcu...e_planted.html

Formulas:

Nitrogen: To target a specific nitrogen increase, dose according to the following formula: 0.25vn=m, where v= volume of tank in gallons*, n=desired nitrogen increase (if using a “nitrate equivalent” value for “n” then use a factor of 0.05 instead of 0.25 in the formula) and m=volume of product to use in mL. For example to raise 20 gallons* by 0.20 mg/L nitrogen you would use: 0.25*20*0.20=1 mL.

Phosphorus: To target a specific phosphate increase, dose according to the following formula: 0.8vp=m, where v= volume of tank in gallons*, p=desired phosphate increase and m=volume of product to use in mL. For example to raise 20 gallons* to 0.1 mg/L phosphate you would use: 0.8*20*0.1=1.6 mL.

Potassium: Use 1 capful (5 mL) for every 125 L (30 gallons*). This dose raises potassium by 2 mg/L.

Last edited by sl3xx; 11-05-2015 at 10:18 PM. Reason: clarification
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-05-2015, 11:02 PM
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Those numbers are not correct.

I'm not sure where you went wrong. Possibly converting NO3 to Nitrogen and PO4 to P2O5. The percentages on the bottles are listed as Nitrogen and P2O5, not Nitrate and PO4.

To find the number to multiply by you divide the molar mass of each component,

14.00670 (molar mass of nitrogen) / 62.0049 (molar mass of NO3) = 0.23 Convert NO3 to Nitrogen
94.9714 (molar mass of Po4) / 141.9445 (molar mass of P2O5) = 0.67 Convert PO4 to P2O5

As far as a dose for EI the numbers are,

NO3 7.5ppm
PO4 1.3ppm
K 7.5 ppm

You won't need as much K since the Nitrogen and Phosphorus fertilizers contain potassium.

Long story short the correct numbers for EI would be the following

Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml (has 1.89 ppm of K)
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml (has 0.54 of K)
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml

You can check those numbers and see how much potassium is contained in the Nitrogen and Phosphorus using my calculator in my signature below.

Don't forget the trace elements as well. If your'e using Flourish comprehensive the dose is 6.51 ml.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-05-2015, 11:21 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you very much. I used their online calculator and then divided the mL by 2 since I'm dosing twice a week.

Would your dosages be per week? Or twice a week ?

Just to clarify.... See the calculator I used. See here for K, then I divided by 2:

http://i.imgur.com/cMJ5679.jpg

I then repeated using the EI targets for the other 2.

Last edited by Darkblade48; 11-06-2015 at 02:05 AM. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sl3xx View Post
Thank you very much. I used their online calculator and then divided the mL by 2 since I'm dosing twice a week.

Would your dosages be per week? Or twice a week ?
2-3 times per week

Quote:
Originally Posted by sl3xx View Post
Just to clarify.... See the calculator I used. See here for K, then I divided by 2:

http://i.imgur.com/cMJ5679.jpg

I then repeated using the EI targets for the other 2.


That would be correct if you wanted to dose 10ppm per week. However, the standard EI dose for potassium is 7.5 ppm dosed 2-3 times per week.

Edit:The percentage in Flourish potassium is listed as K2O not potassium. To convert K2O to potassium multiply by 0.8301, Conversion factors

This may make things a little more clear, https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/11...explained.html

Last edited by Zorfox; 11-06-2015 at 01:57 AM. Reason: correction
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you. I was a bit confused. I'll have to read up on it more.

The flourish dosage is also twice per week? Seachem recommended using flourish trace on the days I don't dose comprehensive. Is that necessary? If so is there a formula to calculate that dosage ?
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 01:10 AM
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I would not bother with Flourish Trace- Comprehensive is trace minerals, with such a low dose of macros it almost does not count.

Why not run the tank for a week, then check the NO3. Remember that Seachem Nitrogen does not show up correctly when you use most NO3 tests- you need to double your result to see how much nitrogen is really available to the plants. About half the nitrogen in Seachem Nitrogen is in some other form that the nitrate test does not read.

Have you been running the tank with fish etc? What is the NO3 from fish food? This counts as fertilizer, too.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 01:39 AM Thread Starter
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I dose Flourish 3 times a week, should I use that 6.51 mL dosage each time?

TANK SHOT: http://i.imgur.com/iaPFZLh.jpg

I started the tank 8 weeks ago using substrate and filter bits from my Fluval Edge 6 Gallon. I have 3 puffers in there, a bunch of RCS, and about 5 amano shrimp.
I built my dosing from the recommended dosing that Seachem provided. It was MUCH different than my new numbers.

MY OLD DOSING: http://i.imgur.com/CVr3Twr.jpg?1

I tried to grow Macrandra a few weeks ago and it grew nice, but the lower leaves would melt away and they werent being shaded. I contributed it to my very hard water (350ppm). Last week I got a RO/DI unit and now I mix my RO water with my tap at a 5:1 ratio. I finally got my GH and KH to 3/4. They were previously around 20. Now I realize it was probably a lack of Phosphates messing with my Macrandra.

Last night I tested my nitrates and they were at zero. That's what inspired me to redo my fert dosing schedule.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sl3xx View Post
The flourish dosage is also twice per week? Seachem recommended using flourish trace on the days I don't dose comprehensive. Is that necessary? If so is there a formula to calculate that dosage ?
I agree with Diana. Use trace or comprehensive but not both. Comprehensive is the micro nutrients.

Typically you dose macros (Nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium) and micros (everything else) on alternating days i.e.
Mon Macros
Tues Micros
Wed Macros
Thur Micros
Fri Macros
Sa Micros
Sun 50% water change, no dosing

For future reference you may want to consider dry fertilizers. They are much cheaper.
From this package NPK + CSM+B Package - NilocG Aquatics $14.00 you can make the following,

8 bottles FLourish Nitrogen $87.84 @ $10.98/bottle
8 bottles Flourish Potassium $87.84 @ $10.98/bottle
78 bottles Flourish Phosphorus $768.30 @ 9.85/bottle
9 Bottles of FLourish Comprehensive $98.82 @ 10.98/bottle


$14 versus $1042.80...Your choice

Flourish Nitrogen 500ml KNO3 54.14 grams (approximately 10 1/2 teaspoon)
Flourish Phosphorus 500ml KH2PO4 2.88 grams (approximaetley 1/2 teaspoon)
Flourish Potassium 500ml K2SO4 53.65 grams (approximately 8 1/2 teaspoons)
Flourish Comprehensive 500ml Plantex 24.5 grams (approximatley 5 3/4 teaspoons)

Edit: I forgot to mention my previous post where I said the potassium doses were correct was wrong. The percentage in Flourish potassium is listed as K2O not potassium. To convert K2O to potassium multiply by 0.8301, Conversion factors

Last edited by Zorfox; 11-06-2015 at 01:53 AM. Reason: addition
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 01:54 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks. I'll make the switch soon.

Here's what I plan on doing in the meantime:

M
Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml


T
Flourish 6.51 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml

W
Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml


TH
Flourish 6.51 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml



F
Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml


SAT
Flourish 6.51 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml



SUN
40% WATER CHANGE



How does this look? Can I dose flourish 3x per week at that dosage? Can I just hop right into this?
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sl3xx View Post
Thanks. I'll make the switch soon.

Here's what I plan on doing in the meantime:

M
Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml


T
Flourish 6.51 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml

W
Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml


TH
Flourish 6.51 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml



F
Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml


SAT
Flourish 6.51 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml



SUN
40% WATER CHANGE



How does this look? Can I dose flourish 3x per week at that dosage? Can I just hop right into this?
I would make a couple of changes if it were me.
  1. You can dose 1ml of iron instead. Flourish comprehensive has iron.
  2. Dose Excel everyday
  3. 50% water changes

As Diana pointed out you may want to see how much Nitrate and Phosphate your tank itself is producing. You may be able to reduce dosing in that case.
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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Perfect. How's this?


M
Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml
Flourish Iron 1.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml


T
Flourish 6.51 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml

W
Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml
Flourish Iron 1.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml


TH
Flourish 6.51 ml
Flourish Iron 1.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml



F
Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml
Flourish Iron 1.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml


SAT
Flourish 6.51 ml
Flourish Iron 1.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml



SUN
50% WATER CHANGE

Last edited by sl3xx; 11-06-2015 at 02:20 AM. Reason: changed water change
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sl3xx View Post
Perfect. How's this?


M
Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml
Flourish Iron 1.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml


T
Flourish 6.51 ml
Flourish Iron 2.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml

W
Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml
Flourish Iron 1.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml


TH
Flourish 6.51 ml
Flourish Iron 1.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml



F
Flourish Nitrogen 4.73 ml
Flourish Phosphorus 13.52 ml
Flourish Potassium 4.4 ml
Flourish Iron 1.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml


SAT
Flourish 6.51 ml
Flourish Iron 1.0 ml
Flourish Excel 2.0 ml



SUN
40% WATER CHANGE
Looks good to me except I like 50% water changes.
example,

With no plant uptake the maximum nutrient level of a nutrient(after a couple of months) will be 7.3 times the dose using 50% water changes.

Using 40% water changes the maximum level will be 9 times the dose.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-06-2015, 02:23 AM Thread Starter
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Modified. Big thank you Zorfox! You've completely changed my dosing schedule. Hopefully my plants appreciate it and take off!
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