EI vs. PPS? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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EI vs. PPS?

In the past I've dosed ferts from premixed-mass-produced-off-the-shelf products from Seachem (Flourish line) and Brightwell Aquatic's. As I'm trying new things with a new setup I started looking into other methods I was avoiding before (EI) mainly because I didn't want to have 'more stuff' taking up space. While looking into EI, I found another option being PPS which I found to be neat. Is there any reason to go EI over PPS or vice versa? Is one more accurate than another? It looks like PPS is a little more straight forward than EI, but I'm not sure if it's as comprehensive as EI.

Thoughts?
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post #2 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 03:01 PM
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In the simplest of terms my understand is that Perpetual Preservation System is providing just enough nutrients to "maintain" plants. While Estimated Index is always provide just a bit more nutrients than the plants are expected to use with the point being they will always have more than enough.

I don't know that you would dosing different ferts in either method, but just different amounts. More knowledgeable folk can (and will) correct me
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post #3 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 03:04 PM
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From my understanding, PPS Pro doses the estimated amount of nutrients that the plants will consume per day, where as EI you intentionally overdose, which requires a large weekly water change to prevent nutrient build up to possible toxic levels. As far as taking up space, PPS Pro uses 5 different tubs, while EI uses 4. You can dose EI wet or dry FYI.
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post #4 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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From what I'm seeing PPS uses two 'bottle's one for macro's and one for micro's. EI has one of each of those as well as supplementary bottles so you can dose everything daily with a different bottle per day of the week. Bottles are not the space saving issue, more so ordering a pound of each fert is going to take up space. Again, it's nothing I'm concerned about right now. Before I had constraints due to my apartment and roommates, now I have my own space to do what I want
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post #5 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 03:31 PM
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I don't use bottles personally, I dose dry ferts kept in thick zip lock type bags that store easy. Never really saw the reason to make up liquid ferts.
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post #6 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 03:35 PM
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Seems to me that the OP is already set on going pps-pro and just looking for validation to do so. A pound of all these ferts will be barely a shoebox full.
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post #7 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 04:09 PM Thread Starter
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@terran2k, I'm not looking for validation to go with PPS so please stop assuming. I'm new to dry ferts so I'm looking for more info, that is it. If EI is more comprehensive than PPS, then that is what I'm looking for. I just didn't understand the difference in the two methods until Tek & Passenger responded.

@TekWarren - When you dose dry how do you introduce the ferts to the tank? I'm use to dry ferts in the terrestrial world, so applying dry and it being concentrated in one area plants would get burns. That would be the reason I was looking into making liquid ferts. If you don't need to then dosing dry would make more sense.

I see a lot of dosing's done by volume (i.e. X fraction of a teaspoon to Y gallons) but is there a way to dose by weight (i.e. X grams/oz per Y gallons)? I see weight being a more consistent measurement than volume.
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post #8 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 05:22 PM
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Edit: My statement below should have said that ei does not require weekly 50% water changes. It's what I meant to say and I can understand why it created some confusion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PassengerTN View Post
From my understanding, PPS Pro doses the estimated amount of nutrients that the plants will consume per day, where as EI you intentionally overdose, which requires a large weekly water change to prevent nutrient build up to possible toxic levels. As far as taking up space, PPS Pro uses 5 different tubs, while EI uses 4. You can dose EI wet or dry FYI.

EI does not require any water changes, while it is a good idea to do frequent water changes you dont have to. Some people dont and have nice looking tanks.

Water changes are a good idea whether you dose via the EI method, PPS-PRO method, or you dont dose at all.

Last edited by nilocg; 10-06-2015 at 02:53 AM. Reason: Eh
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post #9 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilocg View Post
EI does not require any water changes, while it is a good idea to do frequent water changes you dont have to. Some people dont and have nice looking tanks.

Water changes are a good idea whether you dose via the EI method, PPS-PRO method, or you dont dose at all.
Interesting. Your site was one of the many I've been reading through for the past few days. In your directions you even list water changes on day 7. I get this is all setup to setup situations, but being clueless to this new process I took some of these as cut and dry till I figure out what works for me. Good to know though!


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post #10 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 05:56 PM
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I use EI because I have no way to tell exactly what my plants need. If I want heavy growth, I dose three times per week and do 50% water change each week or two if I'm lazy. If I want slower growth I does once per week and do water changes every 2-3 weeks. It just depends on what I'm looking for.

I have my water change procedure down so it doesn't take much time. I'm lucky enough to be able to just fill the tank with a garden hose and the water parameters, temp, etc are fine year round, and my tank is only 46 gallons.

I dry dose. I have a week pill container, you know the one that has a container for each day of the week. When I do a water change, I use my teaspoon measures and fill each day for the week. Then each day when I feed the fish, I just dump in that one days ferts, macros or micros. Takes < 1 second to dose.

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post #11 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tihsho View Post
Interesting. Your site was one of the many I've been reading through for the past few days. In your directions you even list water changes on day 7. I get this is all setup to setup situations, but being clueless to this new process I took some of these as cut and dry till I figure out what works for me. Good to know though!
It is certainly a good suggestion to do them, and it most all guides about EI you are going to see that a 50% weekly water change is suggested. Its really more of a suggestion to keep up with good tank maintenance than really needing to do so to keep the nutrient levels in check.

One method or amount of dosing will never work for all tanks. This is the reason that I dont include a sheet with suggested dosing amounts with any order I send out.
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post #12 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 06:20 PM
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To dry dose, you simply add the ferts right into the water column of the tank: just dump it in and done! I do what David mentioned also. I use a pill "box" and measure out the amount of each fert/ferts for each day I want to dose. I found verticle pill container where each "day container" attaches to the other so I can detach that days container, dump the contents and then screw it in to the bottom so the next day is back on top. -Some containers made messes when I tried to use them.

I've always worked off this article for my measurements (and adjusted as needed): AquaScaping World Magazine - Estimative Index Fertilization Method

Quote:
@TekWarren - When you dose dry how do you introduce the ferts to the tank? I'm use to dry ferts in the terrestrial world, so applying dry and it being concentrated in one area plants would get burns. That would be the reason I was looking into making liquid ferts. If you don't need to then dosing dry would make more sense.

I see a lot of dosing's done by volume (i.e. X fraction of a teaspoon to Y gallons) but is there a way to dose by weight (i.e. X grams/oz per Y gallons)? I see weight being a more consistent measurement than volume.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingHDTV View Post
I dry dose. I have a week pill container, you know the one that has a container for each day of the week. When I do a water change, I use my teaspoon measures and fill each day for the week. Then each day when I feed the fish, I just dump in that one days ferts, macros or micros. Takes < 1 second to dose.

david
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post #13 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 06:23 PM
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That is what I use for my dosing values as well.

david

Quote:
Originally Posted by TekWarren View Post
To dry dose, you simply add the ferts right into the water column of the tank: just dump it in and done! I do what David mentioned also. I use a pill "box" and measure out the amount of each fert/ferts for each day I want to dose. I found verticle pill container where each "day container" attaches to the other so I can detach that days container, dump the contents and then screw it in to the bottom so the next day is back on top. -Some containers made messes when I tried to use them.

I've always worked off this article for my measurements (and adjusted as needed): AquaScaping World Magazine - Estimative Index Fertilization Method
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post #14 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys! This info is a lot of help. I'll be looking to dose EI in a 6.5 gallon so I'll need to figure out weights rather than volumes like I said before.

When you dump in your dry ferts do any of the ferts make it to the bottom of the tank? As I mentioned before, in the terrestrial world, ferts can burn plants and I don't want to get a layer of dry ferts in a carpet to have it damage the plant. Again, this may not happen in the aquatic world, but I'm asking based off experience with emersed growth and terrestrial growth (from my garden.)


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post #15 of 88 (permalink) Old 10-05-2015, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tihsho View Post
Thanks guys! This info is a lot of help. I'll be looking to dose EI in a 6.5 gallon so I'll need to figure out weights rather than volumes like I said before.

When you dump in your dry ferts do any of the ferts make it to the bottom of the tank? As I mentioned before, in the terrestrial world, ferts can burn plants and I don't want to get a layer of dry ferts in a carpet to have it damage the plant. Again, this may not happen in the aquatic world, but I'm asking based off experience with emersed growth and terrestrial growth (from my garden.)

For a tank that small you are probably going to want to make a liquid solution. Trying to measure out such small amounts for daily dosing is going to be tedious. Mixing two 500ml bottles(one for macros and one for micros) will last you a very long time.
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