Celebes Rainbows dying - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 03:05 PM Thread Starter
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Celebes Rainbows dying

I recently got 7 celebes rainbows - 2 died on the 13th or 14th day (know b/c I was going to get credit if they die within 14 days) - that was last week. Changed substrate 2 days ago and found another one dead this morning.

I used at least half or more of my old tank water and 15 gallons of new (40g). I am running a canister filter and my water parameters are always good.

I put osmocote in the substrate (buried) and I checked ammonia yesterday for a spike and it was ok. Checked today and got 0 ammonia, .5 nitrite, 5 nitrate

Are these just super sensitive fish? I have no idea why I've lost 3/7. Tank barely overstocked, probably right at the top, but my filtration is good.

The only other fish loss I've had since I started the tank in Feb was a guppy.

any ideas?


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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 03:25 PM
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No, IME they are not sensitive, pretty hardy in fact (had a group of them in a tank that clouded up because I forgot to turn the filter back on and they survived just fine).
Overstock isn't a problem as long as params are fine (target nitrite is 0ppm, but .5 shouldn't kill them).

14 day return policy? That's good, all my LFS either no guarantee or only 3 day guarantee. Forgot how long chain stores guarantee.

Usually for me, 7 day (3 day minimum) window of survival upon acclimation/introduction is a good indicator that the fish should survive, unless of course death due to an outside factor (disease, fighting, etc.) besides transporting/new tank stress.
So I am thinking something might be wrong.

Did they have any weird behavior or concerning signs indicating poor health at the LFS? (super stressed? I seen a group of individuals literally swim in tight 2" circles. diseases?)

Sorry, can't really think right now, I am super tired and got to get some shut eye. I will check back later.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-20-2015, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
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well, now you have me worried about a disease.

If you have time I posted a video in FISH regarding serpae tetra - he has something eating his body at the end where it connects to his tail. I doubt he will be ok unless I get him treated right away. Then, can I treat the whole tank. I have snails and some crs living in that tank. Maybe an amano or 2 if they haven't gotten eaten.


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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 08:27 AM
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Sorry for the late reply.
I am not really knowledgeable on fish diseases as I usually only research particular diseases I have encountered. But if I had to take my best guess as to what it looks like that serape tetra has, I think it's Fin and Tail Rot (although not rotting fins, the tail itself has rot and they body does appear to have white film over it). It could be an ulcer, but fin rot uses same medication. If it is fin rot, I know there are plant and/or invert safe meds out there.

I believe there is a salt and heat treatment as well, but I personally don't like those methods. I have tried with ich outbreak before and wasn't pleased with it (plants didn't like it at all, fish either and I still needed to treat with meds). But it has worked for others and might work for you.

There are also wide-spectrum meds out there that treat for multiple diseases in case you are not 100% sure it has more chance of working in case it is something else the meds does treat for (for instance, Kordon Ich Attack and Kordon Rid Fungus, said to be same exact ingredients and are all natural, fish, plant and invert safe do treat for multiple things). Even Melafix and Pimafix are said to be safe for plants and inverts (although these two meds effectiveness are a toss up if they actually work or not, some say they heal, but do not cure, some say they work, some say they don't)

I would treat ASAP, since the rot exposes raw flesh which exposes the fish to even more bacterial and fungal infections which can overcome the fish rather quickly.

Again I am not 100% sure this is what the serape has, but it's my best guess.
Research symptoms to be more certain.
Possibly could be columnaris, but I think that usually shows more signs of white patches and fungus (but I assume the meds would be the same to treat fin rot and columnaris)
Also I cannot say whether or not this disease is what is killing your Celebes Rainbowfish.

Posting the link to your other thread so other can check it out and give their opinion:
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...793&highlight=
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 10:31 AM
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Changing substrate out could have gave rise to elevated ammonia level's briefly Before water was tested, which could have resulted in sudden death's.Some species more acutely affected by ammonia level's than other's.
After a few hour's,,the ammonia could have been much lower or zero, than right after substrate swap where all manner of dissolved organic matter may have been disturbed
Also possible given the species,that the Serpae's nipped at the rainbow's to the point that they finally succumbed, and could also be the reason for tattered tail areas or damage to one or more other serpae's (is what they do from my observation's).
Is also possible that indeed their is a bacterial pathogen affecting them and appropriate med's might bring relief.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
Changing substrate out could have gave rise to elevated ammonia level's briefly Before water was tested, which could have resulted in sudden death's.Some species more acutely affected by ammonia level's than other's.
After a few hour's,,the ammonia could have been much lower or zero, than right after substrate swap where all manner of dissolved organic matter may have been disturbed
Also possible given the species,that the Serpae's nipped at the rainbow's to the point that they finally succumbed, and could also be the reason for tattered tail areas or damage to one or more other serpae's (is what they do from my observation's).
Is also possible that indeed their is a bacterial pathogen affecting them and appropriate med's might bring relief.
Yeah, it's possible what roadmaster said, but a couple fish did die before the substrate change (which is why I looked past the substrate change as a culprit to the main problem)

But yeah, I didn't know at the time the Celebes were housed with Serpaes. From what I hear Serpaes are well known fin nippers and it is possible the Serpaes harassed the Celebes to death (doesn't have to be physical damage (physical exhaustion from running away constantly), the stress alone even if not physically injured can cause them to die, especially them being rather new-2weeks new-).

Have you observed the serpaes pestering the Celebes? Celebes are fast so they might not get physical signs of injury (frayed or torn/nipped fins). Fish can harass at night when you do not see them do it (some fish nip -or attempt to/chase- fish who are less active/sleeping at night since they are easy targets, but you would see signs of damage)


The missing flesh on the serape tail could be from a Celebes fighting back (doubt it, but I suppose it's possible, whether a bite if large enough or ramming that caused a open wound then infection took place, or not at all caused by the Celebes, or could be caused from fighting between serpaes or that serape swam fast into a object and hurt itself, still would need to treat disease)
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 01:15 PM Thread Starter
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I haven't noticed the serpae bothering the celebes but I'll watch for that. Never thought of it. I hit erythromycin last night bc i though find rot as well. I hope it works. Thanks for all the advice. I appreciate it. The celebes all look fine.

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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by schnebbles View Post
I haven't noticed the serpae bothering the celebes but I'll watch for that. Never thought of it. I hit erythromycin last night bc i though find rot as well. I hope it works. Thanks for all the advice. I appreciate it. The celebes all look fine.

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Title of thread say's different "Celebs rainbows dying"
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 08-21-2015, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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It started as that until I noticed my serpae was sick. At first I thought it was only the celebes bc I've lost 3 of 7 in 3 weeks.

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