how much prime to use during water change - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-10-2009, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Phish's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 664
how much prime to use during water change

I do weekly 25-40% water changes on a 20 and 10 gallon. when I am adding prime to the water prior to adding it to the tank, how much should I add. I am using a 3 gallon bucket to do the changes, do I add it based on the amount of gallons in the bucket or in the tank itself??
Phish is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-10-2009, 10:54 PM
Banned
 
Left C's Avatar
 
PTrader: (19/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Burlington, NC
Posts: 5,009
I've do it two different ways. After draining with a Python, I add the amount of Prime for the whole aquarium and then add my water. I may be able to get by with less Prime, but this works for me. I'm amazed at how fast Prime really works.

When I use buckets, pitchers, etc. I add two drops per gallon from a 50 mL Prime bottle that has a flip up cap made to dispense drops. When the bottle gets empty, I refill it.

EHEIM PIMP #164
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Classic 2011, Classic 2213, Classic 2217, ECCO 2236, Pro II 2028, Liberty 2040, Liberty 2042

VICTOR PIMP #1
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
VTS253A-1993, VTS250B-580, VTS253D-320, HPT500-40-350-4M, SGT500-40-4F-DK

Last edited by Left C; 06-11-2009 at 11:12 AM.
Left C is offline  
post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Phish's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 664
okay well I dont have a drop dispenser thing so um, how full should I fill the cap on the 250ml lol
Phish is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 12:39 AM
Wannabe Guru
 
rich815's Avatar
 
PTrader: (34/100%)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Albany, CA (San Francisco area)
Posts: 1,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left C View Post
I've do it two different ways. After draining with a Python, I add the amount of Prime for the whole aquarium and then add my water. I may be able to get by with less Prime, but this works for me. I'm amazed at how fast Prime really works.
This is exactly how I do it too. The instructions for amounts are on the bottle but I use two capfuls into my 72 gal that is 50% down, then add the water to the top.

I'd do about 1/2 capful for your 20 gal and 1/4 capful for your 10 gal.

---------
My tank:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Photography Website (my other hobby)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
rich815 is offline  
post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 12:52 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Phish's Avatar
 
PTrader: (18/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 664
okay cool and that is total right, not per bucket of water I use?
Phish is offline  
post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 01:34 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
belladee's Avatar
 
PTrader: (6/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left C View Post
I've do it two different ways. After draining with a Python, I add the amount of Prime for the whole aquarium and then add my water. I may be able to get by with less Prime, but this works for me. I'm amazed at how fast Prime really works.

When I use buckets, pictures, etc. I add two drops per gallon from a 50 mL Prime bottle that has a flip up cap made to dispense drops. When the bottle gets empty, I refill it.
Wait.. so you add the amount required for the whole tank? So if you have a 70gallon tank and add back 10 gallons, you add enough for 70 gallons?

I just prime what I add back. Like if I add 10 gallons of water back I add 1ml of prime. should I be adding more?
belladee is offline  
post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 02:25 AM
Banned
 
Left C's Avatar
 
PTrader: (19/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Burlington, NC
Posts: 5,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by belladee View Post
Wait.. so you add the amount required for the whole tank? So if you have a 70gallon tank and add back 10 gallons, you add enough for 70 gallons?

I just prime what I add back. Like if I add 10 gallons of water back I add 1ml of prime. should I be adding more?
Seachem mentions two different ways to do it in their instructions, but you have to "clear the smoke and read between the lines" to understand what they are saying and implying.

From: http://www.seachem.com/Products/prod...ges/Prime.html This is also written on the 100, 250 and 500 mL bottles of Prime.
"Directions: Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 gallons*) of new water. ... For smaller doses, please note each cap thread is approx. 1 mL. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. ..."

Do you see that they mention two different ways to add Prime?

Also, the threads in the cap extend about half of the way up. 1 thread is 1 mL which is enough to add to 10g of water. 1 thread is about 20 drops from the 50 mL bottle.

Most of the time when I top up an aquarium, I use a pitcher or bucket to hold my tap water. I add the amount of Prime for the pitcher or bucket by the drops. When I do large water changes with my Python, this is when I add enough Prime to treat the whole aquarium.

I really like those little 50 mL bottles and just squirt out 2 drops per gallon. It is easier than trying to measure out 1 mL by the threads. You can get them at Pet Smart.

When I do my large water changes, that is when I dose an whole aquarium's worth of Prime.

Something that isn't mentioned is how much Prime is too much. Like, what is the LD50 for Prime? I don't know. That is why I use two different methods. I know that at times I double dosed Prime and I didn't have any problems at all.

EHEIM PIMP #164
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Classic 2011, Classic 2213, Classic 2217, ECCO 2236, Pro II 2028, Liberty 2040, Liberty 2042

VICTOR PIMP #1
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
VTS253A-1993, VTS250B-580, VTS253D-320, HPT500-40-350-4M, SGT500-40-4F-DK
Left C is offline  
post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 02:26 AM
Banned
 
Left C's Avatar
 
PTrader: (19/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Burlington, NC
Posts: 5,009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phish View Post
okay cool and that is total right, not per bucket of water I use?
That is the total.

EHEIM PIMP #164
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Classic 2011, Classic 2213, Classic 2217, ECCO 2236, Pro II 2028, Liberty 2040, Liberty 2042

VICTOR PIMP #1
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
VTS253A-1993, VTS250B-580, VTS253D-320, HPT500-40-350-4M, SGT500-40-4F-DK
Left C is offline  
post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-11-2009, 03:28 AM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,012
I always dose Prime for the total aquarium volume, and add it as I start refilling after a 50% change. My reasoning is that Seachem believes it takes a minimum concentration of Prime in the water to make it effective, however much chlorine or chloramine is in that water. I think this may actually be true, because obviously there could be a pretty big variation in how much is in the tap water, but they specify a single dosage amount, without concern for how much is in the tap water. I recall reading a forum response from Seachem where they said not to be concerned about overdosing as long as you are close to the bottle instruction amount.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 11:13 AM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
michu's Avatar
 
PTrader: (13/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Addison, TX
Posts: 435
Oh for goodness sakes... i am a complete idiot. All this time i have been carrying buckets for a 150 gallon tank, 4 gallons at a time and pouring because I was afraid to add the prime first. LOL My life just got a whole bunch easier... time to break out the python.
michu is offline  
post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 01:02 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
belladee's Avatar
 
PTrader: (6/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 349
I called the company that makes prime.

they said just dose the water you are adding, not the volume of the tank. You can dose the column of the tank but it is not necessary and they said you can add it before, during or after just do it at the time of the water change.

Editing one month later: I now see on their own site they say if you are adding the water to the tank directly dose according to tank volume! So the lady I talked to was mistaken...or we had a misunderstanding

Last edited by belladee; 07-22-2009 at 12:47 PM. Reason: update
belladee is offline  
post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 02:30 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
Posts: 449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phish View Post
okay well I dont have a drop dispenser thing so um, how full should I fill the cap on the 250ml lol
You really need to get one then! Because Prime is so concentrated, I have found it dangerous when dealing with very small tanks. I have killed WCMM in a 5g tank - twice. (It took the second round to make the connection. I still really, really regret this. So sorry little fish!) I highly recommend understanding the correct dosage and using a proper measuring devise. No guestimates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Left C View Post
Most of the time when I top up an aquarium, I use a pitcher or bucket to hold my tap water. I add the amount of Prime for the pitcher or bucket by the drops. When I do large water changes with my Python, this is when I add enough Prime to treat the whole aquarium.

I really like those little 50 mL bottles and just squirt out 2 drops per gallon. It is easier than trying to measure out 1 mL by the threads. You can get them at Pet Smart.

When I do my large water changes, that is when I dose an whole aquarium's worth of Prime.
This is EXACTLY how I use Prime in my tanks. GMTA!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left C View Post

Something that isn't mentioned is how much Prime is too much. Like, what is the LD50 for Prime? I don't know.
Important point. A double dose maybe okay for most fish, but a triple dose - lethal for some. And, a double dose just treating water you're topping off, or adding back 10% or 20% by buckets; is entirely different from tripling a 50% waterchange adding back to the full volume of the tank!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
I recall reading a forum response from Seachem where they said not to be concerned about overdosing as long as you are close to the bottle instruction amount.
I highlighted this for emphasis. Again, close to the amount instructed.

Seachem has a sub-forum on the other planted aquarium website. Here is where the discussion ran about overdosing Prime:
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...-overdose.html

Hoppy, you actually posted during this discussion!


Quote:
Originally Posted by belladee View Post
I called the company that makes prime.

they said just dose the water you are adding, not the volume of the tank. You can dose the colume of the tank but it is not necessary and they said you can add it before, during or after just do it at the time of the water change.
I forsee you have now started a controversy!!!! Are you quite sure you undestood them; and they you???
Rod Hay is offline  
post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 02:58 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (84/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 21,012
This question comes up very often. And, that's because the logic involved isn't very clear. What is clear is that Prime doesn't have to be dosed extremely accurately in order to not harm the fish/shrimp. Seachem clearly said that 5 times the recommended dosage is as high as you should ever go, but following the 1 ml per 10 gallon recommended dosage is the best way to do it. I think LeftC had the best answer - either dose the container of change water at 1 ml per 10 gallons before adding it to the tank, or dose the partly filled tank at the 1 ml per 10 gallons full tank capacity as you refill the tank. If you are doing a 50% water change you will be initially dosing the tank at twice the recommended dosage, which Seachem clearly said is not going to do any harm. But, if it is an 80% water change, then dosing the tank as you add the change water would put you at a 5X dosage initially, which might be iffy. The obvious fix for that is to dose half the Prime initially, then dose the second half as the tank gets closer to being full. And, dosing nano tanks requires nano dosing techniques.

Hoppy
Hoppy is offline  
post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 05:23 PM
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
belladee's Avatar
 
PTrader: (6/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South
Posts: 349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
- either dose the container of change water at 1 ml per 10 gallons before adding it to the tank, or dose the partly filled tank at the 1 ml per 10 gallons full tank capacity as you refill the tank.
I just dont get this. I want to understand... If you take 10 gallons out of a 70 gallon tank and then add back 10 gallons to the tank directly (with a python) WHY not just dose the 1ml? WHY dose 7ml? Why retreat the rest of the tank water?
belladee is offline  
post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 05:54 PM
Banned
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by belladee View Post
I just dont get this. I want to understand... If you take 10 gallons out of a 70 gallon tank and then add back 10 gallons to the tank directly (with a python) WHY not just dose the 1ml? WHY dose 7ml? Why retreat the rest of the tank water?
It doesn't make sense. I just treat the water that I took out. If I took 10 gallons out of 70, I might be inclined to not add any at all. Back when I had a 29, if I ran out of Amquel (which I used at the time, instead of Prime), I would just change 5 gallons at a time a couple of times in a week. I slowly transitioned to no Amquel by doing larger and larger water changes.

I knew a breader that used to not treat his water at all. He had everything you can thing of, Angels, Discus, Africans, GBRs--all kinds of fish of varying types. He used to do 90% water changes on every tank, thousands of gallons every day, and Prime was cost prohibitive.

Today, I does Prime for what I remove. It doesn't make sense to me to do anything else, unless you have more money than you know what to do with. If that's the case, let me tell you about a charity I have been working with. It's called the Human Fund. Write me a check, and I will see that it is put to good use.

A lot of it is determined by how much of what there is in your water, and it's an expensive and possibly cruel experiment, which is why with my current tank, in a new area, I use Prime.

65 gallon journal:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
kid creole is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome