too lazy for EI, will PPS-Pro work? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-19-2015, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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too lazy for EI, will PPS-Pro work?

I just set up a new rimless 21 g 5 weeks ago, high tech. I'm too lazy for a 50% water change every week, I can only handle 1-2 water changes per month.

I bought the PPS-Pro kit from Greenleaf Aquariums and am following their recommended dosing, 2 ml per day of macros and micros per their formula which I made into the 500ml bottles.

I'm assuming that if I want to, I can up the dosing on that and approach a sort-of EI, and maybe still get away with water change every other week.

Basically, I want to half-ass it but get great results. Anyone else doing something like this or am I going to have to suck it up and go for the real EI?

I'm just doing the PPS-Pro right now and hoping it works. I notice everyone doing EI, is it really better or should I stick to PPS-Pro?

I've had a rough cycle with this tank, big time ammonia (ADA aquasoil). melting plants that I didn't take out quickly because I didnt know what I was doing and made the ammonia spike even more. I have some plants growing pretty well now, DHG, Limnophila aromatica, ludwigia repens, just bought staurogyne repens.

I bought willow moss and java moss and can't tell them apart. One is doing fine, the other looks somewhat dead, with only a little bit of green starting to show up.

I have pressurised CO2 with a green-lime green drop checker, a Current USA Sat+ Pro, an Eheim classic 250.

thanks in advance
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 12:34 AM
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i have about the same set up as you. similar plants, tank, co2 etc...
i do water changes every other week and between each waterchange, i just do top offs.


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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 02:33 AM
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Your water changes will be determined by how much live stock you keep.

75 Gallon Low Tech w/ Green Terror Pair
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 02:56 AM
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If you beef up the PPS much you will end up being in amounts that the EI recommends
you use the 50% per week/w. They have a light version on the calculator(old one, don't
know about the replacement)but it's still recommended to use the 50% WC/w it.
Not having done this but speculating...with injected CO2 it's more likely to have
deficiencies in the amount of one or more of the nutrients when using the PPS system.
Only adding slight amounts of the one that is low probably ends up/w that also being used up and not creating a problem that needs the 50% WC. But only if you add in very small amounts till the deficiency goes away.
Depending on the overall amount of plants, it may not have ANY deficiency.
Less plants=less likely. Probably a really full tank will run short of some nutrient.

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 07:17 AM
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Depends on the overall plant mass and what type of plants. For example a tank full of fast growing stems will require more ferts than a bunch of moss, crypts and java fern.

You're just going to have to try it for yourself and find out. Do the pps or 1/2 EI and bi-weekly water changes....and see what happens.


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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 08:11 AM
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I do a bit of a hybrid approach....

I aim to keep nitrates around 15ppm, and phosphates around 2-3ppm.
When I add water change water, I have pre-dosed it to 15/3ppm as above.
Then every second day I add 1ppm of NO3, and 0.5ppm of phosphate (and 2ppm K).
I did a bunch of serial testing with arrays of standard tubes to get an idea of how much my tank chews through.

Micros are pretty much just as per EI.

The TDS of my tank only goes from about 230 to 240 over the course of a week, I could stretch out water changes if I wanted to, but do a 70% per week change....
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-20-2015, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, I'm going to go with a 50% higher PPS-Pro dose, using daily liquid ferts, and see what happens. Hopefully I can get away with bi-weekly water changes
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-21-2015, 04:52 AM
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I do EI and change the water once every month on this tank:



But......I do no water changes on this tank:



Based on the logic presented...........the non CO2 method is far superior.

But......................no one bothered to state the goal of the scape/tank/plants, general species etc........without stating that..........you have a 20 fold difference in RATES of growth and labor required.


There is no one size fits all and not all planted tank designs, planting etc works the same, EI will hit a far larger target than the other methods.........because it suggest large frequent water changes, but no dosing method avoids water changes say on this tank:



These 3 tanks illustrate a vast difference, but the dosing method is NOT the defining factor, the light/CO2(or not), gardening required to keep it in a steady state, uprooting versus topping trim methods, stems vs slower growing rhizome type species, emergent vs submersed, algae eaters, etc.

New folks get duped all the time by manure sale pitches rather than asking them basic questions. Telling you what you WANT hear, not what you NEED to hear. Heck, the newbie does not know any better.

I've yet to meet a new person who said they wanted to get into this hobby to test nutrients. Water changes? Most accept they signed up for that. You can manage it, but most should wait a while before heading down that path and get an idea what their goal is to begin, THEN.........ask the next question/s.

So start there with your stated goal, plants of interest, scape ideas etc.
It'll help folks help you specifically.




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 06-23-2015, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks I appreciate the advice. I just want to have a nice tank and learn, I figured I'd try high-tech, I've had a low-techish nano tank and wanted something bigger that I can aquascape more easily.

I'm going to start a little heavier with PPS-Pro, but not quite full EI, and do bi-weekly water changes and see what happens
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