Lithium Carbonate - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Lithium Carbonate

So from what I've read here everyone uses Sodium Bicarbonate, Potassium Bicarbonate, Potassium Carbonate, and Calcium Carbonate to raise KH. And from what I understand having both potassium and calcium is important in an aquarium. I would imagine sodium is too to some extent, as with us at least it works as an electrolyte complimenting potassium, calcium, magnesium, and phosphates. We also get magnesium for the higher GH part and phosphates from where I assume fish food? I'm not sure why some people are against some sodium, but that's besides the point I want to talk about.

However, no one ever brings up lithium. We talk about everything else (e.g. copper, iron, boron). But why do we never talk about lithium? More preciously Lithium Carbonate. I'm pretty sure it could be one of the makeups for KH. It's found rich in mineral springs, plants take it in, and it's important to our diets. Acts as a sedative, which is incredibly important to our mental health in low enough dosages. Wouldn't the same apply to fish? I know to a certain extent it can cause toxicity, like anything else, but I'm thinking minute dosages. I would imagine a little lithium for a timid fish such as a neon tetra or discus would cause the fish to experience less stress?

Am I crazy in thinking we should be using lithium (especially for us RO/DI guys), or have we been missing an entire element that could be beneficial for our tank?
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 11:12 PM
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I'm going to speculate on that one...
If it's needed there is already some there or the fish/plants that need it would show signs of not having it.

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-16-2015, 11:22 PM
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pretty reactive element, probably not worth it for the fish industry, on top of what Ray said...
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 02:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Blaher View Post
and phosphates from where I assume fish food?
Fish food/fish waste for some low tech tanks... KH2PO4 fertilization if fish food isn't enough. (pretty much all high tech tanks)

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I'm not sure why some people are against some sodium, but that's besides the point I want to talk about.
Many folks are afraid of sodium and chloride because salt kills plants in high enough doses... but I suspect that's more the chloride end, and it takes a lot more salt to kill plants than many folks think... (ask a reef guy how much salt he adds... yes that will kill plants, but look at how much they add... 1/2 cup per gallon??!!)


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However, no one ever brings up lithium. We talk about everything else (e.g. copper, iron, boron). But why do we never talk about lithium? More preciously Lithium Carbonate. I'm pretty sure it could be one of the makeups for KH.
While lithium is taken up by plants, it is not known to be of any actual benefit to them.

There is a category of ultra-trace elements like vanadium, and cobalt, that have been proven to be needed by plants in tiny amounts. These nutrients are required in such tiny amounts, it is actually very difficult to create a deficiency, even using laboratory equipment and lab-grade high purity deionized water. Lithium might be a similar case, but one that nobody has created a lab environment pure enough yet to produce a deficiency of it in plants.

If it takes rigorous laboratory environments to even produce a deficiency, our fish food should introduce more than sufficient ultra-trace elements for our plants.. Even using RODI it shouldn't be an issue.

If plant researchers can't even create a lab environment that creates a deficiency? Yeah, good luck having that happen in your tank using RODI water, which is not at the high end of purity when it comes to lab grade standards. RODI still has a few PPM of TDS in it after all...

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 03:10 AM
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.....
Am I crazy in thinking we should be using lithium .....
Pun intended?? (fish on lithium...)
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 11:08 AM Thread Starter
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If it takes rigorous laboratory environments to even produce a deficiency, our fish food should introduce more than sufficient ultra-trace elements for our plants.. Even using RODI it shouldn't be an issue.

If plant researchers can't even create a lab environment that creates a deficiency? Yeah, good luck having that happen in your tank using RODI water, which is not at the high end of purity when it comes to lab grade standards. RODI still has a few PPM of TDS in it after all...
That is probably all I need to know. I was assuming after an RO/DI process 100% of the stuff was gone. I didn't think about it being a source in the food we add either. If and when more cities start adding the stuff to the water supply, it'll probably be plentiful. I'm still curious about dissolving a 0.5mg in a standard bottle, and dropping a few drops in a discus tank every now and then, especially before a home social gathering. I'm not going to try it though.

The same probably applies to sodium then too. Even through RO/DI and through adding food, it's probably trace enough for their to be enough for the minimum fish uptake.

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Pun intended?? (fish on lithium...)
Yes... It's not as funny if you point it out.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 11:49 AM
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That is probably all I need to know. I was assuming after an RO/DI process 100% of the stuff was gone.
It's all relative scales..

RODI can take hard water with, say 500 ppm of tds in it, and drop it to 1-5 ppm (depending on what condition your membrane is in)... A good quality unit with a new membrane may even go a bit below 1ppm.

On a scale of things based on supporting human, fish or plant life, that is taking "everything" out of the water... Compared to tap or ground water, there's no appreciable hardness, minerals, etc.

But it still has a couple of ppm of stuff in it, total... It has really only removed "almost everything". A fraction of a percent of what went in still made it out.

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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 06-17-2015, 03:00 PM
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If the fish suffers from bi-polar disorder, it would be welcomed.

You get all of the micros in a good micronutrient fertilizer.

Yes Na salt is good only at a small micro quantity, same with Li.
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