Fertilizer and algae help - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Fertilizer and algae help

Currently dose the following

Dry amounts to dose for 250 gallons
KNO3 (approximately 3 teaspoons)
KH2PO4 (approximately 1/4 teaspoon)
K2SO4 (approximately 2 teaspoon)
Plantex CSM+B (approximately 1 teaspoons)
Iron Chelate (approximately 1/4 teaspoon)

Mon - KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4
Tues - Plantex, Iron Chelate
Wed - KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4
Thur - Plantex, Iron Chelate
Fri - KNO3, KH2PO4, K2SO4
Sat - Plantex, Iron Chelate
Sun - 50% water change no dosing

Lights on about 5 hours a day, CO2 comes on 1 hour before. Lights were on 6 hours a day, but dropped it to 5. I see lot of green algae all over my rocks. Setup is about 8 months old. Tank is stocked heavy with the following plants. Suggestions to what I should do or change at this point? Lights are T5HO, 320 watts, 18 inches above tank, also have glass top over tank. Lights cannot go any higher as they are in a canopy.

Tank is 24 inches deep.

Cabomba Furcata
Cambomba Green
Cyperus Helferi
Sagittaria
Micro Swords
Amazon Swords
Water Sprite
Lots of Anubias
Cryptocoryne Wendtii Bronze
Blyxia Auberti
Potamogeton gayi
Tiger Lotus
Cryptocoryne spiralis
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 02:47 PM
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What are the measurements on the tank ?
How are the 320W divided up; like three/four bulbs on each end x 36" bulbs ?
Pictures go a long way to explaining problems in tanks.
A couple of close ups of the specific problem places and a full tank shot as well.
The calculator is down so no access right now, but your KH2PO4 seems low.
Proper plant growth is the best defense against algae and that MAY be hindered
if the KH2PO4 is actually lower than needed.
I'm a bit suspicious of the CSM+B also(as in a bit low).

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 03:07 PM
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None of your plant's need this much light.
Maybe set CO2 to come on two hours before light's on.
Remove a couple bulbs, or shade the glass with window screen.
See that there is good flow throughout the tank for good distribution of the Gas before it escapes upward's as it will want to do.
This seem's to be a large tank and may take manifold type connection to allow a couple diffuser's to better distribute the gas.
The light is hurting you in my view at present, more than helping.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 04:49 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for the replies so far. Let me try and provide additional info to see if we can figure this out.

The tank is 180 gallons, 72 x 24 x 24, the sump holds 70 gallons.

The return pump is Waveline DC 12000, around 3170 GPH, I know less with head so on.

Also have 4 hydor koralia 850, I think tank has ton of flow, maybe too much.

So the tank was going to be full high tech, but just did not turn out that way because of the plants I went with.

The light has total of 7 bulbs, 80 watts each, 60 inches long. The are all staggered, so I run 2 in the front and 2 in the back. If I pull anymore would it not cover part of the tank? I agree maybe too much light still and that the problem. I have one midday in the front and back, along with 1 aquaflora in the front and back

My drop checker always turns light green almost yellow, but not until it been on several hours. The CO2 is on it own pump which goes into the reactor, then back into the intake of the main return pump in the sump.

So are you saying turn on 2 hours before, and turn off at same time as lights? Should I increase the CO2 so drop checkers are yellow?

I will try post some pictures later today.

Last edited by FishStix; 06-02-2015 at 04:56 PM. Reason: .
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 05:25 PM
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How far it is from the bulbs to the sub is more important here.
In a 55g tank/w an Aquaticlife fixture and given the legs on the fixture minus the height of the sub...two Geishman bulbs may be too much unless lots of plants are there.
Is there any way to run one in the middle and one front and back ?
I don't do CO2 so telling you what I've read on it is the best I can do on that.Time and again I read where people are told to increase it very slowly WHILE watching the fish
for signs of problem. This may take long hrs in a tank that big. But then they are told to drop it back just a bit once the fish start to have bad reaction to it.

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...

Last edited by Raymond S.; 06-02-2015 at 05:29 PM. Reason: more:
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-02-2015, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
How far it is from the bulbs to the sub is more important here.
In a 55g tank/w an Aquaticlife fixture and given the legs on the fixture minus the height of the sub...two Geishman bulbs may be too much unless lots of plants are there.
Is there any way to run one in the middle and one front and back ?
I don't do CO2 so telling you what I've read on it is the best I can do on that.Time and again I read where people are told to increase it very slowly WHILE watching the fish
for signs of problem. This may take long hrs in a tank that big. But then they are told to drop it back just a bit once the fish start to have bad reaction to it.
So from the light bulbs to the top of the substrate is around 40 inches. I could take one bulb out of the front and back and also turn only one on in the middle, the problem, is what type bulb would I use then, and the fact the bulbs are staggered I don't think it would cover the entire tank this way.
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 12:47 AM Thread Starter
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After doing clean up on the tank tonight, I really noticed the water sprite is turning all brown, and a lot of the sword leaves are dead, I am using root tabs as well for all the root feeders.

Sometimes I feel like it time to start over with new plants, don't even know were I would start though.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 01:56 AM
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Water Sprite turning brown and 40" from bulb to sub = not enough light.
Sticking my neck out really far on this one but I'd put one more bulb in front and back.
If you are loosing the plants what do you have to loose more than that ?
When you said 18" over the tank it really didn't sink into my head that this is IN
ADDITION TO the 24" of tank height, well minus the sub.
First on this link look at the diagram that tells you about reducing light level from distance.
Then go to the T5 chart and look at the Aquatic life 4 bulb fixture line. Those bulbs are together and the PAR meter is under them. Your bulbs are spread out much more.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=184368
Depending on what(and if) you have good reflectors behind those bulbs, you may have far less light than you think hitting the sub.
There is a thread on here about the calculator being down. Someone likely gave a link to another one by now in it. I'd check the ferts you are dosing and if close to correct then what else but the light is to blame ?

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 07:08 AM
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Well, I'm no CO2 guru either,but I have heard/read that those with sumps sometimes seal the sump with cling wrap to prevent CO2 loss.
I too was under the impression that the lighting was 18 inches to the substrate and this news= maybe not too much light but problem with CO2 level's/distribution.
could move drop checker around to different area's of the tank (lower) to see if the level's are consistent along with increasing the gas a bit while as Raymond mentioned, keeping close eye on fishes.
I still think the large tank will present challenge getting CO2 evenly distributed to all area's and sump may be off gassing the CO2.?
I been studying/reasearching the CO2 injection method of growin the weed's ahead of trying it myself (much smaller tank), and can only share what I have learned from those already using this method.
Maybe some things mentioned can bring some relief/better result's.
Me thinks I might ought to sneak back to low tech issues where I am much more comfortable with suggestions for that method.
Will say that most plant's can grow just fine with 35 to 50 PAR at the substrate according to real plant gurus so I might consider this before increasing the light .

Last edited by roadmaster; 06-03-2015 at 07:51 AM. Reason: correction
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
Water Sprite turning brown and 40" from bulb to sub = not enough light.
Sticking my neck out really far on this one but I'd put one more bulb in front and back.
If you are loosing the plants what do you have to loose more than that ?
When you said 18" over the tank it really didn't sink into my head that this is IN
ADDITION TO the 24" of tank height, well minus the sub.
First on this link look at the diagram that tells you about reducing light level from distance.
Then go to the T5 chart and look at the Aquatic life 4 bulb fixture line. Those bulbs are together and the PAR meter is under them. Your bulbs are spread out much more.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=184368
Depending on what(and if) you have good reflectors behind those bulbs, you may have far less light than you think hitting the sub.
There is a thread on here about the calculator being down. Someone likely gave a link to another one by now in it. I'd check the ferts you are dosing and if close to correct then what else but the light is to blame ?
Thanks I will try out that calculator and see what happens. Maybe also I will just try the other lights for a few week see what happens. Thinking at this point I just need to fool around with it.

Bump:
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
Well, I'm no CO2 guru either,but I have heard/read that those with sumps sometimes seal the sump with cling wrap to prevent CO2 loss.
I too was under the impression that the lighting was 18 inches to the substrate and this news= maybe not too much light but problem with CO2 level's/distribution.
could move drop checker around to different area's of the tank to see if the level's are consistent along with increasing the gas a bit while as Raymond mentioned, keeping close eye on fishes.
I still think the large tank will present challenge getting CO2 evenly distributed to all area's and sump may be off gassing the CO2.?
I been studying/reasearching the CO2 injection method of growin the weed's ahead of trying it myself (much smaller tank), and can only share what I have learned from those already using this method.
Maybe some things mentioned can bring some relief/better result's.
Me thinks I might ought to sneak back to low tech issues where I am much more comfortable with suggestions for that method.
Will say that most plant's can grow just fine with 35 to 50 PAR at the substrate according to real plant gurus so I might consider this before increasing the light .
Thanks for the advise, if my tank only looked at nice as yours

I have tried moving the drop checker all over the tank and feel that I am getting CO2 distributed well, as drop checker seems to stay same after moving it for a few hours. I have tried it over several days. In regards to the sump it is sealed, not with wrap, but with acrylic lids.
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-03-2015, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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I don't like sharing pictures of my tank, but thought I would in this case. First let me say the following. My tank not at all perfect, most of the time it mess. Wife cannot stand that I leave it a mess, but I am always messing around with it. I try my best with what little time and skills I have.

Yes I know... before you say it.

Purigen needs changed
Filter socks need changed
Glass needs cleaned
Maybe sump needs cleaned as well

Taking these pictures made me realize a few things I have a line that has kink in it for the purigen reactor, need to fix that tonight, and that my UV light bulb is not working, guess I need to order a new one.
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Last edited by FishStix; 06-03-2015 at 08:20 AM. Reason: .
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-05-2015, 09:24 PM
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Honestly your tank looks dark to me. It seems as though your flash was lighting the tank more then your lights. Here is a shot of mine and I can tell you flash on or off both looked the same.


Just noticed the wide shot do never mind looks like plenty of light.
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Last edited by Eclipseaudio4; 06-05-2015 at 09:27 PM.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-06-2015, 01:43 PM Thread Starter
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So I increased my CO2 a bit, and also increased my ferts a bit. What about light time, should I leave that at 5 hours? Any other suggestions?
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-06-2015, 04:15 PM
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What reflectors are you using? Is the light fixture a DIY project, or is it a manufactured one, and if so, what company?

Hoppy
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 06-06-2015, 04:18 PM
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Here is the new calculator folks:

http://yanc.rotalabutterfly.com

I'd personally not add more light, but maybe try to increase photoperiod to 6 hours and see what happens. Start from there and watch closely your plant growth.
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