Amaquel Plus and ferts - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-29-2015, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
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Amaquel Plus and ferts

Am I chasing my tail?
When I top off my tank with tap water, I use Amaquel Plus to neutralize chlorine. It says it neutralizes ammonia, nitrite and nitrate as well as chlorine.

Am I neutralizing my dry fert dose?

Last edited by ichy; 05-29-2015 at 02:09 AM. Reason: sperling
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-29-2015, 03:23 AM
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I don't really know what is in amquel Plus.. they're pretty secretive about what's in the product. (just like Seachem)

That said, they claim it *detoxifies* ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.. This usually means they temporarily bind it into a form that isn't toxic to fish, but generally still available to plants and bacteria in your biofilter... at least, that's what Seachem claims about prime... (Prime also wears off after 24 hours, and everything it bound and hasn't been broken down goes back into its original form.)

I suspect amquel operates in much the same manner.

That said, amquel claims it affects methylene blue, whereas Seachem claims prime does not, but may affect copper based medications as it acts as a reducing agent on them, making them less toxic to fish.

So there may be some different actions going on.

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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-30-2015, 10:58 PM
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I think Amquel is the temporary solution, not really an anti-chlorinator. I would just use a cheap antichlorinator that also detoxifies heavy metals - typically what you will find on the outside of the bottle.

If you need something to take care of ammonia temporarily, use Amquel or something similar.

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-31-2015, 02:54 AM
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Amquel plus is marketed as a dechlorinator, and its affects really shouldn't be temporary... Pretty much all dechlorinators work by turning free chlorine into chloride, and that change doesn't readily revert itself over time... If chloride were easy to turn into free chlorine, saltwater tanks would be in a world of hurt.

Now, the ammonia neutralizing may be temporary, just like it is with prime.. but that's a different story.

Regardless, I don't think there's any reason to doubt amquel Plus's ability to neutralize chlorine... it is a pretty easy thing to do with sulfates... Sodium thiosulfate and Sodium metabisulfite are two rather popular options.

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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-31-2015, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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So I don't think I have an answer...could this stuff be binding up my dosing?
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-31-2015, 11:54 PM
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Doubtful, but since kordon won't say what is in it, they are the only ones that could answer authoritatively.

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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 02:03 PM
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After reading the product description it seems that it is not recommended for a planted tank because of the reduction of Nitrates.

One goal of the product is to detoxify a wide range of nitrogen sources including NH3, NO3 and NO2. As a result of neutralizing nitrates, water changes are not required as frequently as the potential toxicity of nitrates are kept under control. This is perfect for a fish only aquarium.

The product says it does not however harm the food source for bacteria:
Here is how they describe how it works:

"This product is safe for use in aquariums and ponds and will not interfere with biological filtration or its bacteria. When AmQuel Plus detoxifies ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, and other organic compounds, it breaks the links of molecules apart. The nitrifying bacteria do not know the difference and eat the parts, just as they would the whole original compounds."

One example of how this could be done is to convert NH3 to NH2, which is a source of food for bacteria (but they don't say how it works exactly).

But this chemical link breaking doesn't help plants which need to assimilate ammonium and nitrates.

IDK ... but I wouldn't take the chance and would switch to a dedicated dechlorinator if you start to see signs of nitrogen deficiency.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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I think I'm just going to switch as you suggest. What lead me to question this is, my tank is about 2 months old and I NEVER get any amount of nitrite or nitrate on my test kit.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imcmaster View Post
After reading the product description it seems that it is not recommended for a planted tank because of the reduction of Nitrates.
Does Kordon claim that it is not recommended for planted, or is that your conclusion?

The vast majority of TPT folks seem use Seachem Prime or Safe, and it has very similar claims.

A comparison (emphasis mine):

Prime:
http://www.seachem.com/Products/prod...ges/Prime.html

" Prime® may be used during tank cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime® detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more efficiently remove them."


vs Amqel Plus:
http://www.kordon.com/kordon/product...mpatabilities!
"
  • Detoxifies all of the kinds of toxic nitrogen compounds in the water
  • Detoxifies all forms of ammonia/ammonium
  • Detoxifies all forms of nitrites/nitrates
"

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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 02:32 PM
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As I already said, I don't know, but suggested to look for nitrogen deficiency as an indicator.

We will not be able to know because Seachem/Kordon protect the knowledge of how their products work.

But I suspect Prime 'binds' up the nitrogen sources (in a temporary fashion) rather than attempts to break bonds which has a more permanent effect.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 05:27 PM
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Fair, it wasn't clear from the start of your post if you'd read that, or inferred it..

I also agree that prime tends to be a temporary action on ammonia, nitrite and nitrate... That said, even seachem doesn't seem to understand how/why it affects nitrate..

http://www.seachem.com/support/forum...ead.php?t=3983


But you're right, if amquel is breaking bonds as they suggest, that is not going to be temporary.

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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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Man the more I'm researching these things,,,they take out metals..iron, bind up all the Ammonia products...

I think I might just let a 5 gallon bucket sit overnight!
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 05:52 PM
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I've used amquel + for a long time and it doesn't affect planted tanks anyway I never had the problem. I think the binding of nitrates is a temporary thing though as I always dosed the same amount of nitrates and didn't have to change the dosing. Amquel is one that you don't want to overdose those as it will lower oxygen levels when you do unlike prime or safe which it doesn't hurt to overdose a little.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-01-2015, 06:34 PM
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Interesting.

ichy - it would be great if you could mix a known amount of KNO3 in your 5 gallon bucket, test for NO3 to confirm/calibrate, and then add amquel and test again after 24h, 48h and 7days.

The amount of NO3 processed by Amquel would depend on the concentration dosed relative to the tank size. So it could be that only some of the KNO3 dosed is effected in a large tank?

A test like the one above would help answer this problem.
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