Doubting my EI dosing - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-07-2015, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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Doubting my EI dosing

Hi all,

I think I'm really close to finally have my tank all good and just being able to grow plants, but I wanted some input on my EI dosing.

I still randomly (less than previously) get some stunting of plants and curling of leaves. I think this may be co2/flow related, but I wanted to rule out ferts. I get no algae anymore so lighting I believe is good too.

Tank is 48g Mr. Aqua, pressurized co2, dual BML lights. Below is my dosing according to EI, with 50% water changes. Numbers are from http://calc.petalphile.com/. All dosed every other day, 6 total days and water change 50% on 7th day. I also add 3/4 tsp of GH Booster on water change day.

KNO3: To reach your target of 7.5 ppm NO3 you will need to add 2.222 g KNO3 to your 48.0 US gal aquarium to yield

KH2PO4: To reach your target of 1.3 ppm PO4 you will need to add 338 mg KH2PO4 to your 48.0 US gal aquarium to yield

K2SO4(do I need this): To reach your target of 7.5 ppm K you will need to add 3.037 g K2SO4 to your 48.0 US gal aquarium to yield

CSM+B: To reach your target of 0.5 ppm Fe you will need to add 1.391 g Plantex CSM+B to your 48.0 US gal aquarium to yield
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-07-2015, 04:48 PM
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One slight error. If you are adding that whole list that is...
What you need to do is act as if that target number is a total.
Where you have "Do I need this ?" that is optional.
But if you use it you need to add the results from the KNO3 AND the K2SO4
to get your target amount. That much extra on "K" won't hurt.
But on "PO4" you don't want to add over the target. At least till you find
a related deficiency.
This list is a normal list for EI.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=21944
People often use the K2SO4 to regulate the nitrates.
For example: my tank gets 1/8 tsp KNO3.
But instead, I use 1/16 tsp KNO3 and 1/16 tsp K2SO4.
But actually I found this gives me a red color when I test just before the Water Change.
So... I use 1/32 tsp of KNO3 along/w 1/32 + 1/16 tsp of the K2SO4 and that
gives me a test result that is light Orange...10-15 ppm.
When you use that calculator, you can select "the result of my dosing" instead of EI.
That will allow you to convert to tsp. I just do it this way because I'm not going to sit down/w a scale each time I do ferts.
So to use the K2SO4 also you would do percents of each to reach that target amount.
Is that Rotala that gets curling leaves ?

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-07-2015, 04:59 PM
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I had problems/w Rotala leaves curling, but the underside of them were yellowish also.
On that link you will notice the iron listed as optional.
I added 1/64 tsp of FE 10% to my CSM+B dosing on that second day and the leaves no longer curl. 10g tank BTW.

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-07-2015, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
One slight error. If you are adding that whole list that is...
What you need to do is act as if that target number is a total.
Where you have "Do I need this ?" that is optional.
But if you use it you need to add the results from the KNO3 AND the K2SO4
to get your target amount. That much extra on "K" won't hurt.
But on "PO4" you don't want to add over the target. At least till you find
a related deficiency.
This list is a normal list for EI.
https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=21944
People often use the K2SO4 to regulate the nitrates.
For example: my tank gets 1/8 tsp KNO3.
But instead, I use 1/16 tsp KNO3 and 1/16 tsp K2SO4.
But actually I found this gives me a red color when I test just before the Water Change.
So... I use 1/32 tsp of KNO3 along/w 1/32 + 1/16 tsp of the K2SO4 and that
gives me a test result that is light Orange...10-15 ppm.
When you use that calculator, you can select "the result of my dosing" instead of EI.
That will allow you to convert to tsp. I just do it this way because I'm not going to sit down/w a scale each time I do ferts.
So to use the K2SO4 also you would do percents of each to reach that target amount.
Is that Rotala that gets curling leaves ?
Thanks for the reply Raymond. Bit confused though. What do you mean act as if the target number is a total? The calculator says to dose those numbers 2 to 3 times per week. So for instance kno3. It says 2.22g. Are you saying I should not dose that amount 3 times a week but spread 2.22 grams out over 3 times a week? Below is the output when selecting EI on the calculator, it definitely says dose 2-4 times per week 2.222 g. This is what's confusing me. The numbers the calculator provides are higher than the link you show. I prefer pre-measuring each week to just drop a dry dose right in the tank.

Quote:
To reach your target of 7.5 ppm NO3 you will need to add 2.222 g KNO3 to your 48.0 US gal aquarium to yield
Element ppm/degree
K 4.73
N 1.69
NO3 7.50



Dose these levels 2-4 times a week for EI. Classic EI depends on good CO2, good circulation, and regular water changes. Light past moderation is not so important.

Last edited by bsantucci; 05-07-2015 at 06:16 PM. Reason: new info
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-08-2015, 02:04 AM
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No, you're correct, the targets provided by the calculator are for a single dose. The total mentioned was total potassium (K). If you're adding both Kno3 and k2so4, take the resulting ppm for K and add them together. You only need enough k2so4 to reach the target. Kh2po4 also adds potassium, but only a small amount.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-08-2015, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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No, you're correct, the targets provided by the calculator are for a single dose. The total mentioned was total potassium (K). If you're adding both Kno3 and k2so4, take the resulting ppm for K and add them together. You only need enough k2so4 to reach the target. Kh2po4 also adds potassium, but only a small amount.
Got it and thanks for confirming!
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-08-2015, 02:19 PM
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What's your GH or Ca and Mg? Curling leaves sounds like Calcium deficiency and yellowing could be due to low Magnesium and/or Iron.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-08-2015, 02:23 PM Thread Starter
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What's your GH or Ca and Mg? Curling leaves sounds like Calcium deficiency and yellowing could be due to low Magnesium and/or Iron.
GH is 6, I also dose 3/4 GH Booster on water change days, so I don't think it's that. I think it's a co2/flow issue to be honest.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-08-2015, 02:34 PM
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Yea I think perfectDepth described it well.
I meant that IF you use both the KNO3 and the K2SO4 that each time you dose
you will need to reduce that initial amount of the KNO3 till it adds up/w the K2SO4 to be the target amount.

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-08-2015, 02:35 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
Yea I think perfectDepth described it well.
I meant that IF you use both the KNO3 and the K2SO4 that each time you dose
you will need to reduce that initial amount of the KNO3 till it adds up/w the K2SO4 to be the target amount.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying. So my dosing is good it's back to co2 and lighting now.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsantucci View Post
Got it. Thanks for clarifying. So my dosing is good it's back to co2 and lighting now.
What brand GH booster do you use?

Most have potassium so K2SO4 may not be needed as mentioned. Depending on the brand you're using the booster dose may be a tad small.

Other than that, your dosing is spot on.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 12:29 AM Thread Starter
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What brand GH booster do you use?

Most have potassium so K2SO4 may not be needed as mentioned. Depending on the brand you're using the booster dose may be a tad small.

Other than that, your dosing is spot on.
I'm using GLA's gh booster. It does have K I believe. I'll stop the k2so4.

I'm going to play with moving my koralia in different places to see if that helps circulate better. I think aiming down at the bases more may be better.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 12:32 AM
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One final comment, although getting it roughly accurate is important, your tank will differ. You will get the hang of it, but as long as you're not widely outside the requirements, using 1/2 teaspoon here and there will be fine. I dose to EI and always as a rule add a teaspoon of MgSO4 and K2SO4 to all my tanks. That way magnesium and potassium are in good supply. I had my Ovalis curling leaves until I added the Mg.

Point is, get it accurate, then monitor and then round off your teaspoons and don't stress.


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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 12:39 AM
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I can't put my fingers on their composition atm. However, if I remember correctly it's a standard GH booster. You're currently dosing GH booster to about 0.75 dGH. In reality it should be about 2 dGH. Increasing the dose to 2 teaspoon (8.3 grams) is more in line with full EI dosing.

That said I doubt it's your calcium or magnesium although the possibility does exist. Increasing your dose will indeed eliminate nutrients as a cause. That's the beauty of EI. Eliminate nutrients and then focus on other aspects of the hobby.

My guess would be low CO2 from not enough delivered CO2 or poor tank circulation.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-10-2015, 08:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okedokey View Post
One final comment, although getting it roughly accurate is important, your tank will differ. You will get the hang of it, but as long as you're not widely outside the requirements, using 1/2 teaspoon here and there will be fine. I dose to EI and always as a rule add a teaspoon of MgSO4 and K2SO4 to all my tanks. That way magnesium and potassium are in good supply. I had my Ovalis curling leaves until I added the Mg.

Point is, get it accurate, then monitor and then round off your teaspoons and don't stress.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
I can't put my fingers on their composition atm. However, if I remember correctly it's a standard GH booster. You're currently dosing GH booster to about 0.75 dGH. In reality it should be about 2 dGH. Increasing the dose to 2 teaspoon (8.3 grams) is more in line with full EI dosing.

That said I doubt it's your calcium or magnesium although the possibility does exist. Increasing your dose will indeed eliminate nutrients as a cause. That's the beauty of EI. Eliminate nutrients and then focus on other aspects of the hobby.

My guess would be low CO2 from not enough delivered CO2 or poor tank circulation.
Thank you both. With 6dGH I probably don't need GH booster.....I think I'll pick up MgSO4 as well and dose that as well as Okedokey said.

Zorfox, I'll do 2tsp GH booster until I can get the above. Like you said, I'll rule out nutrient deficiency.

Appreciate the help guys.
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