Trace Elements (Micronutrients) mix questions - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-22-2009, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Trace Elements (Micronutrients) mix questions

Hello ppl, Iím kind of new with this fert stuff and i have been reading a lot about the entire process on how to maintain a well planted aquarium by using the EI or the PPS-Pro methods... I'm also kind of familiar with the PMDD formula so here are my questions if someone can answer them for me:

1. If i can't find Plantex CSB+B is there a stablished formula that i can use to produce my own micronutrient mix?

2. Do the compounds have to be all chelated because Iíve found a store that sells all of them separately at 5% and they are all chelated compounds (http://nrconsa.com/baicorquel.html)

3. As far as i know CSB+B has:
Fe6.53%
Mn1.87%
Mg1.40%
Zn0.37%
Cu0.09%
Mo0.05%
B1.18%
How do you measure those % in that mixture... for example if i have 100gr of each and i have a 250ml bottle, what's the amount i have to use to get that % ? Because obviously the total is not 100% so that percentage is kind of tricky for me.

Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-25-2009, 09:40 PM
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In my experience companies don't like to discuss their mix in detail and I doubt that they will tell you which trace elements are chelated or not but I think a lot of them are chelated.In the case of Tetra they refused to answer that question on their official forum simply by telling that they could not go into details about that product's composition.I don't think that would be wise to do your own mix and some of those elements are dangerous if not chelated.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 02:13 AM Thread Starter
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Can anyone help me out with a Trace Element Mix formula????
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 02:48 AM
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How much do you need?

If it is a few pounds or less, here are some suggestions.

Rex Grigg ships by USPS and he also works for them. He may be able to send you some CSM+B. Orlando at GLA may be able to help you as well.

Are you able to get Tropica's Plant Nutrition liquid or Seachem's Flourish in your country? These products are good too.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-26-2009, 03:24 AM
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If you are making 250 ml of mix, that is 250 grams of water. 6.53% of 250 grams is 16 grams of iron - not the compound containing the iron, but the iron itself. The amount of the compound needed is the total atomic weight of the compound and its chelator divided by the atomic weight of iron times 16 grams. Of course that means you need to know what the compound is, and how much of the chelator is mixed in, and the atomic weight of the chelator compound. Then, repeat for each of the listed elements. If you enjoy chemistry you might enjoy figuring all of this out.

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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 04-29-2009, 12:56 PM
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Hy, i also have a question regarding the Trace elements mix. I got a highly concentrated trace elements fluid with more Fe. I deluted 50 ml of it in 450ml de-ionized water, but after 2 weeks i have stuff swimming around in it. Is that normal? I didnt mix it with Macro elements or anything else, and i wrapped the flask in alu foil to keep it dark.
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-18-2009, 01:49 AM
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Aquasal a gram scale is needed to make the following and try to get the weights as accurate as possible and shake it well!

In 1l of distilled water add the specified amounts given below to give a nutrient solution containing roughly (.02% Fe, .0055% Mn, .0035% B, .0005% Cu & .0015% Zn)

4 grams of Phyto Plus Quelato de Hierro (Fe) 5%
1.1 grams of Phyto Plus Quelato de Manganeso (Mn) 5%
.5 grams of Phyto-Plus Quelato de Boro (B) 7%
.1 grams of Phyto Plus Quelato de Cobre (Cu) 5%
.3 grams of Phyto Plus Quelato de Zinc (Zn) 5%

Add 2ml per 37.85L to get .01ppm Fe

If the weights are too low you can go up with solution and micros by 2's

(e.g.) 1L x2= 2L, Boron =.5g x2= 1g, 1L x 4= 4L, Cu .1 x4 = .4g )
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you very much, now i think i'll be able to get me a reasonable micro mix here in my country. Unfortunately i can't get the well known CSM+B and that's why i was trying the find the way on how to get this done by myself.

So by comparing these two compounds (this mix and CSM+B), i can see that mine will have less of everything (elements %).
Phyto Plus (.02% Fe, .0055% Mn, .0035% B, .0005% Cu & .0015% Zn)
CSM+B(Fe6.53% ,Mn1.87% ,Mg1.40% ,Zn0.37% ,Cu0.09% ,Mo0.05% ,B1.18%)

How is this going to affect the way i have to dose, let's say i'm trying to achieve 0.1ppm Fe, according to what you wrote this means that i'll have to add 20ml of solution to the aquarium in order to get that amount right?

But how are the other elements going to react according to this?
Because 2ml per 37.85L = 0.01ppm Fe it's not the same as calculating it for Cu, Zn, Mn, B right?

I hope i'm making any sense with that question, it's just that i don't want to kill my fishes or overdose anything and waste $, time and effort.

BTW THANK YOU very much for all your help.
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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I'm asking this because i'm going to try to follow the Perpetual Preservation System (PPS-Pro) and according to what i read at the GWAPA website my goals to achieve are:

Fe range 0.1-0.5ppm
Ca range 10-20 ppm
Mg range 2-5 ppm
Other trace materials donít have a specific range

and since everybody or most of the ppl are using the CSM+B Trace element mix, how am i suppose to use this one instead of that one?

Thanks
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 02:42 PM
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I suggest using Epsom salts (MgSO4) dosed separately, and a chelated iron mix dosed separately. Many people do that even when using CSM+B.
iamaloner and iamaloner like this.

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-19-2009, 05:52 PM
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Here's the update:

To mix the chelates I suggest you use a blender to mix for about 5min.

In 1L of distilled (warm) water add the specified amounts below to give a nutrient solution containing roughly (.19% Fe, .054% Mn, .034% B, .0025% Cu & .012% Zn)

38 grams of Phyto Plus Quelato de Hierro (Fe) 5%
10.8 grams of Phyto Plus Quelato de Manganeso (Mn) 5%
4.9 grams of Phyto-Plus Quelato de Boro (B) 7%
.5 grams of Phyto Plus Quelato de Cobre (Cu) 5%
2.4 grams of Phyto Plus Quelato de Zinc (Zn) 5%

Add 2ml per 37.85L to get .1ppm Fe (this will raise all the other micro's in ratio comparable to CSM+B)

If you can source Sodium Molybdate or Ammonium Molybdate let me know the % concentration and I'll calculate the grams needed to add to this solution. Also, you do not needed the Boron to be chelated, using Boric Acid powder (commonly found roach killer) or Borax (laundry/cleaning additive) will work just the same and should be much cheaper to obtain.

Let me know if you do find these so that I can re-calculate for you.

The Magnesium is not needed in your trace mix because this is more a secondary nute and more is needed in the water column ppm wise, so addding this the micro mix is useless IMO. This you can add at WC.

BTW what size tank do you have?


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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 05:49 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you guys for all your help, i think i can live with this and be happy for a long time
Deicide thank you very much for your time and everything you were able to come up with by using the compounds i gave u. I'll make the mix and let you know how it worked... I hope to see an improvement in a couple of weeks or at least a month or two.

Thanks again and btw this forum it's [email protected]#$ awsome :p
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 06-21-2009, 01:10 PM
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Acuracy of the measurements is important, so take your time weighing and calibrate your scale. It will give the same results as CSM+B does if it is done correctly......enjoy!

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