Excel and an airstone? - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-22-2015, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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Excel and an airstone?

I know you are not suppose to use an airstone with pressurized co2..... How about with liquid like excel?

Thanks
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-22-2015, 05:55 PM
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I know you are not suppose to use an airstone with pressurized co2..... How about with liquid like excel?
Thanks
No problem. You can't gas off a liquid source of carbon with air bubbles. Glutaraldehyde CH₂(CH₂CHO)₂ is a totally different source of carbon than co2.

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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-22-2015, 06:11 PM
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+1... I use the two together in my tanks, and haven't noticed any reduction in the effectiveness of excel.

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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-22-2015, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the responce. This is great news
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 04:59 AM
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+1 I will never use excel without heavy aeration. The fish just take a beating if I don't.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 05:47 PM
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While I think heavy aeration is a good thing (assuming you're not injecting CO2), I'm wondering how aeration can offer fish protection against glutaraldehyde.

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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by mattinmd View Post
While I think heavy aeration is a good thing (assuming you're not injecting CO2), I'm wondering how aeration can offer fish protection against glutaraldehyde.
Severe overdose, damage gills, strong aeration only way to keep fish alive?
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 05:54 PM
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Aeration is protecting the fish from low oxygen related to organic oxidation and breakdown, and increasing water flow in areas of the aquarium other than in a fish's gills.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 06:05 PM
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I suppose the oxygen issue is realistic if your water oxygen levels are marginal, aeration definitely protects against that..

As for flow... if your airstones are making more tank flow than your filter, you might be having other problems... (and yes, I use airstones to ensure flow around certain ornaments... I am a bit of hypocrite here, but I'm also dosing excel in the open water where the filter turns the water over very quickly, not the most sheltered corners of my tank... )

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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 06:11 PM
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I am also only recommending and referring to drop in heavy aeration for large excel doses (3-5ml/10 gallon), as my delicate large schools of fish take issue with these.
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 06:15 PM
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3-5ml/10 gallon.. Yeah, that's a large dose, and at those levels I can see how extra caution is needed...

I'm dosing about 1.4ml/10 gallon, which is still slightly over label rates, but you're doing 2-3 times what I'm dosing.

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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 06:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Xirxes View Post
Aeration is protecting the fish from low oxygen related to organic oxidation and breakdown
My envelope maths would say otherwise, but I am happy to be corrected if wrong.

Excel is 2% glutaraldehyde, and the density of glutaraldehyde is effectively 1 g/mL. So 5 mL is the equivalent of 0.1 g glutaraldehyde, which is the equivalent of 0.06 g elemental carbon. Assuming that entire amount of carbon is completely oxidised to CO2, you would need 0.16 g O2. Round up to 40 litres of water, that is the equivalent of 0.004 g/L, or 4 ppm.

Typical oxygen saturation of water in the atmosphere is 8 ppm. So at worst, assuming instant and 100% conversion of the carbon to CO2, you would use half the dissolved oxygen in the water. This would be pretty bad, but in reality there is no way that the glutaraldehyde is completely oxidised, and it doesn't happen instantly. You should also consider that degradation of glutaraldehyde by plants would be associated with photosynthesis and O2 *production*.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 06:51 PM
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You have some strange, and misdirected assumptions.

Glut is the oxidizing agent in question, the affected area of concern is the organic waste in the system. As the waste is processed, a well known issue of oxygen depletion can occur, which is why I recommend aeration.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Xirxes View Post
Glut is the oxidizing agent in question
No, glutaraldehyde is not an oxidising agent. Very powerful reducing agents can revert it to an alcohol, but it will oxidise in the presence of oxygen to form glutaric acid.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-23-2015, 08:13 PM
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I have been wrong before, but glut is the active ingredient, and this is creating the O2 drop by facilitating the reduction of organic waste
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