Macro and micro ferts - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-20-2015, 08:31 PM Thread Starter
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Macro and micro ferts

I bought KNO3 and KH2PO4 since i thought these two were sort of the main macros i would need for the moment. I made 500ml solution of each salt according to yet another nutrient calculator. Now however, i realize that the stuff i thought was micro (tropica premium) is not micro and instead some sort of universal fertilizer. I thought the tropica stuff was micro because it didnt contain N and P

How would i go about calculating how much of everything to add so as to not overdose? I guess the easiest thing for me to do would be to buy a trace mix and dose that instead of the tropica premium but it was pretty expensive.

Last edited by Nazdaq; 04-20-2015 at 08:35 PM. Reason: edit
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-20-2015, 09:44 PM
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When you use the YANC, and look at the list of premixed ferts, do you see the Tropica fertilizer you purchased?
I see "Tropica Plant Nutrition (TPN)" which has Potassium and many micros, and "Tropica Plant Nutrition+", which is like the former but has nitrates and phosphates.
If it is the TPN, there is 1.13 ppm of K, for each 0.1ppm Fe.
Potassium would be the only fertilizer that might be 'overdosed'.
I would dose KNO3 and KH2PO4 as directed, and dose TPN for Iron as directed, and I wouldn't worry about the excess K for now.

But if what you bought isn't TPN, then you will need to figure out the breakdown of the formula. Cheers.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-20-2015, 10:19 PM
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It appears that Tropica Premium is a micro mix with potassium. That's pretty consistent with an "all in one" fertilizer. Those types rely on plant, fish waste and food decay for Nitrogen and Phosphate.

I can't seem to find the current analysis for Tropica Premium. The closest I can find is this link.

Quote:
Premium
K 0.80%, Mg 0,39%, S 0.91%, B 0.004%, Cu 0.006%, Fe 0.07%,
Mn 0.04%, Mo 0.002%, Zn 0.002%.
If this is the analysis the dosage below would be for 10 gallons. Targetting 0.5ppm of iron.


27ml of Tropica Premium will provide the following (as ppm) in 10 gallons...

Code:
B		0.028571429
Cu		0.042857143
Fe		0.5
K		5.714285714
Mg		2.785714286
Mn		0.285714286
Mo		0.014285714
S		6.5
Zn		0.014285714
IF this analysis is correct you could safely us this as your "micro mix" and simply dose the KNO3 and KH2PO4 you currently have. At the very least follow Tropica's guidlines and dose KNO3 and KH2PO4 at whatever dose you need.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Wow i really appreciate the details of your replies thank you! So for my aquarium:

KNO3: solution of 66.036g for 500ml water, add 5ml to my 54l aquarium 2-4 times a week
KH2PO4: solution of 10.059g for 500ml water, add 5ml to my 54l aquarium 2-4 times a week

Tropica premium: 27ml/10gal = 2.7ml/gal
For my aquarium: 2.7*14.265gal = 38.52ml (weekly)
and if i want daily dose: 38.52/7 = 5.5ml (daily)

And this should take care of all the nutrients in theory? Will copper become a problem for my inverts?

Last edited by Nazdaq; 04-21-2015 at 10:26 AM. Reason: edit for clarity
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 12:29 PM
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The amount you dose depends on your water change schedule. The doses you're using are for full EI dosing. If that's what your looking for then yes, the doses are correct. However, I would dose the Tropica at least twice per week for full EI, preferably every other day.

Btw The old Tropica Plant Nutrition is the same composition as the one I found. Therefore, you can use YANC.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 12:40 PM Thread Starter
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Edit: sorry, i read your post wrong You mean for Full EI dose 11ml tropica every other day?
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazdaq View Post
Edit: sorry, i read your post wrong You mean for Full EI dose 11ml tropica every other day?
Nope.

When dosing micro nutrients using full EI, one dose should equal 0.5ppm of iron. So each dose will be 38.6ml for 54 liters.

The math is quite simple for commercial solutions. Here's one formula...


Dose (per liter) = Desired ppm / (% of element in fertilizer * 10)

So Tropica has 0.07% iron and we want 0.5ppm for each dose...

Dose = 0.5ppm / 0.7 (just move the decimal left one space for mg/L)

Dose = 0.714289 ml/L

Dose = 54 liters * 0.714289

Dose = 38.6 ml

All that said the easiest math is YANC. However, knowing how to do the math is a good idea IMO.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 02:11 PM Thread Starter
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It just seemed so high in comparison to the recomended 5ml per week
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazdaq View Post
It just seemed so high in comparison to the recomended 5ml per week
You're right to question such a large difference. However, it actually is the correct dose. Most commercial fertilizers aren't designed for non-limiting dosing. Now you know why most of us use hydroponic dry fertilizers.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 06:55 PM
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I also started with buying the tropica's when I first started dosing planted tanks. Holy crap did that get expensive quick. Those bottles are gone in no time and they aren't cheap!

http://www.aquariumfertilizer.com are actually pretty reasonable when it comes to shipping rates and dry ferts are really cheap, so even if the shipping is about the same as the product it is still A LOT cheaper then tropica. Usually the shipping is 3-4x times the price of the product when shipping to Scandinavia. At least at the sites I have found all the ferts we need for EI that ship international.


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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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yeah it is insanely expensive for long term use in that case. I noticed that for example plantex csm+b is alot more concentrated and alot of people here are using it. I found a swedish supplier that sends this through mail and they pay for domestic shipping. However, it did not contain any Magnesium. Might try it out though, can always get MgSO4 and just mix it to desired concentrations

http://www.aquawarehouse.se/shop/pro...products_id/50
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-21-2015, 08:16 PM
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Here's some fun math...

Using Plantex CSM +B to equal the iron level of Tropica Premium we add 3.573 grams of Plantex to 300ml of water. Now we have a comparable micro solution.

One pound of Plantex $16.00
Tropica Premium 300ml $18.99

One pound of Plantex will make 127 bottles of Tropica Premium, cost $16.00.

127 bottles of Tropica Premium, cost $2,411.73

The choice is yours. Below is the side by side of the two.

Code:
Tropica			Plantex CSM +B

K 0.80%			K 0.0%
Mg 0.39%		Mg 0.015%
B 0.004%		B 0.0086%
Cu 0.006% 		Cu 0.00096%
Fe 0.07%		Fe 0.07%
Mn 0.04% 		Mn 0.02%
Mo 0.002% 		Mo 0.0005%
Zn 0.002%		Zn 0.0039%
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-22-2015, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
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Haha i think i will buy something cheaper the next time 2411 USD is slightly over my budget
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-22-2015, 01:19 PM
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The basic story is in how the product is supplied. If they both start as dry ingredients (agricultural supply is common, though lab purity is possible, not needed though)

A wet product has someone else adding the water and then all the shipping and handling required for a bottle of water with a small amount of active ingredient.

A dry product has no added water, just a mix of various powders. It is all active ingredient. The end user supplies the water. Even if you have to pay for distilled or reverse osmosis water to make up the product the way you want to use it, the cost is much better because you are not paying someone else to do the mixing, then all that shipping on what is basically enriched water.
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