Fertilizing after a major water change. - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
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Fertilizing after a major water change.

I've seen this topic addressed over the years during my search of this topic, so forgive the repeat! Do you dose Excel/Flourish right after a major water change (50%) or wait a day? I have seen both answers so I'm curios what you all think!
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 02:34 AM
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Personally, I do water changes in the evenings, but this has to do with my free-time schedule.

I dose Prime (to treat the new water), Flourish Comprehensive, Flourish Phosphorus and Equilibrium (GH/K) with my water changes.

There's not much point to dosing Excel when the lights are about to go out, unless you are going to spot-treat algae. So I do NOT dose excel with my water changes.

I dose Excel (ok, I use API CO2 booster, same idea) daily, in the mornings right after my lights come on. I do this regardless of water change the evening before.

I do a mid-week second dose of Flourish comprehensive, Flourish Phosphorus, and Leaf Zone (K+Fe), and dose this one with one of my morning Excel doses.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 05:26 AM Thread Starter
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Ok good to know! I am changing my schedule to accommodate my day off. I had always dosed excel, flourish, and leaf zone with the water change and then again in about 4 days (excel daily in between as well). Then I read that Prime can completely negate the fertilizers for up to 24 hours after use, and that it uses excess O2 in the process (and thus starving fish of O2) ...anyways it made me wonder.

Also is the API CO2 booster the same as Excel? Seachem says that you can dose anytime day or night because it stays active for 24 hours.

So for today I have done nothing. Just Prime, and ill add ferts and excel tomorrow around noon....well see how that goes lol...
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 05:26 AM
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You want the plants to grow starting the minute you finish the water change, but you have removed about half of the nutrients that were in the water. So, you should immediately add the normal fertilizer doses after the water change. Just don't add both the iron and the phosphates at the same time, and especially not mixed together in water if you dissolve your fertilizers in water before adding them.

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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 05:52 AM
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I usually add trace, GH booster and some baking soda for 1 KH after a 50% water change. They are all half of the amount that I would add to the water column to get my desired parameters. Ex. If I used 1 tsp GH booster for 5 gallon then I'll only ad 1/2 tsp after my water change.


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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 09:21 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
You want the plants to grow starting the minute you finish the water change, but you have removed about half of the nutrients that were in the water. So, you should immediately add the normal fertilizer doses after the water change. Just don't add both the iron and the phosphates at the same time, and especially not mixed together in water if you dissolve your fertilizers in water before adding them.
I dose Leaf Zone and Flourish Comprehensive twice weekly only for ferts, and then Excel daily (except I skipped today because I read that prime basically counteracts the ferts/excel within 24 hours) Should I not be adding the two fertilizers on the same day?
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 09:36 AM
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I read that prime basically counteracts the ferts/excel within 24 hours
Do you have a link for that info. I'd be real interested in reading that.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 09:41 AM
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Some people dose iron and phosphate on the same day. The reason is because the iron stays chelated if your water is acidic. That's how the all in one ferts work. I dose at night (micros and macros on alternate days) because I usually forget in the morning. Seems to work OK so far.


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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 11:18 AM
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I agree with dosing after water change for macros but I dose micros the following day due in large part to the dechlorinator I use (Prime) which claims to detoxify or remove heavy metals like IRON ?
It is unclear to me whether the iron in the trace minerals I use CSM+B is affected by the dechlorinators claims, so I does the micros the next day.
Would be happy to hear that the Iron as it appears in the trace mix is not affected to any measureable degree.?
Also am under the impression that mixing both together (macros/micros) has negative effect on phosphates or is it potassium?
I understand you should not mix the two in same dosing bottle ,but am unclear about what effect it has if both are dosed the same day in the aquarium, and have noted that some /most don't add the macros and micros to the tank on the same day when dosing EI.
Am I messed up with my reasoning?
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 02:24 PM
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The situation is a bit different regarding the removal of nitrites and nitrates. Rather than physically breaking bonds within these molecules, Prime binds to the molecules themselves, thus making them unavailable to cause harm in the system. This bond will hold for up to 48 hours, until the nitrites and nitrates are consumed by the bacteria in the biofilter. (Aerobic bacteria consume nitrites and anaerobic bacteria consume nitrates.) Therefore, it is important to have both types of bacteria and sufficient surface area on which they can colonize, as LabTest57 alluded to. Again, we did not intend to mislead anyone, and we hope that this may clear some confusion.
http://www.seachem.com/support/forum...hp/t-2679.html
Notice they add prime day 7 and nothing else.
http://www.seachem.com/support/PlantDoseChart.pdf
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hartgirl View Post
I read that prime basically counteracts the ferts/excel within 24 hours
Do you have a link for that info. I'd be real interested in reading that.
Well that last post pretty much sums up where I saw not to add ferts after prime. That and several frequent forum members mentioned it in other topics. I am not dosing trace and think I will start (opinions if you use Seachem Trace would be great!) I dose Leaf Zone for iron and potassium mostly because I have a giant bottle of it, but I am thinking about dosing seperately with Seachems line....do they make a test for potassium to get the desired amount? I know they have one or iron, but some people find them unreliable from what ive read...
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 04:58 PM
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2014, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadmaster View Post
I agree with dosing after water change for macros but I dose micros the following day due in large part to the dechlorinator I use (Prime) which claims to detoxify or remove heavy metals like IRON ?
Prime detoxifies metals by reducing them (in the chemistry sense, not the "less quantity" sense), it does not remove them. Detoxifying is not the same as neutralizing, removing, destroying, etc.

Based on that, it should not be counterproductive to add Prime at the same time as micronutrient fertilizers, even those containing metals. If anything, the reducing action should do things like convert any ferric iron (Fe+3) to Ferrous (Fe+2), which is more readily used by plants.


See this Q&A with seachem support, suggesting prime can be used in the dilution water for macros & micros.

http://www.seachem.com/support/forum...ead.php?t=1041

Last edited by mattinmd; 09-25-2014 at 07:33 PM. Reason: clarified reducing as being chemistry not quantity
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-29-2014, 02:51 PM
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In that chart, the iron and phosphate are dosed at the same time. Is this an error? Or does seachem have a special formulation that allows macros and micros to be dosed simultaneously?
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 10-10-2014, 03:43 AM
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As a follow-up, I contacted Seachem. They confirmed that Prime does not precipitate metals, and does interfere with Flourish Comprehensive, or any other Flourish fertilizer.


Quote:
Hello Matt,

Thank you for your email. Prime should not precipitate metals and will not interfere with Flourish Comprehensive or other products from our flourish line. It is safe to dose these products together.

I hope this helps,
Seachem Support 10256
[email protected]



On Oct 7, 2014, at 10:25 PM, [email protected] wrote:

> You have been contacted by matthew XXXXXX with regards to Prime and fertilizers, their additional message is as follows.
>
> "I know that prime acts as a reducing agent to detoxify metals. My question is does it also precipitate them?
>
> My general impression is that reducing can be good ie: reducing Ferric iron to Ferrous. However, precipitation could conflict with fertilization.
>
> If it does precipitate metals, would it precipitate flourish comprehensive, if administered within the same hour (ie: at a water change?)?
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