Excel/Metricide question about light sensitivity - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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Excel/Metricide question about light sensitivity

How sensitive is it? If I have a container of it that gets exposed to some light a few seconds when I get some to dose (its a clear jar kept in a drawer) will it go bad/useless?

Also, does it really have to be dosed with lights out? I believe hydrogen peroxide is also light sensitive but I think that takes awhile to break down from the light. Chemistry experts, please give me your knowledge/opinions!
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 04:52 PM
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Hi TheFishWhoKnocks,

It is light sensitive but a few seconds of room light will not cause a problem. If it is starting to degrade it will turn yellowish. I keep a couple of weeks dosing in an old Excel bottle. My large bottle I keep in the refrigerator.

No, it does not have to be dosed with the lights out. Actually for the plants to use the product the lights need to be on and photosynthesis occurring.

How are things in my old hometown, I grew up in the St. Louis area.

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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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Hey, thanks for the reply! Yellowish will be an easy gauge to monitor the 'health' of the stuff.

STL is good right now, a little bit of nonsense in the national media, but pales in comparison to ebola/ISIS type concerns. And the Cardinals are failing to impress this year IMO =(

I'm in Fenton/House Springs area, what area did you come from?
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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-19-2014, 09:15 PM
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Hi TheFishWhoKnocks,

I grew up in Webster Groves and my wife in Kirkwood; she still has family in the Imperial and Petosi areas we we get back there every few years.

BTW, welcome to TPT!

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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-20-2014, 04:47 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks! I grew up in Imperial, right behind the St. Joseph's Church.
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-20-2014, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Actually for the plants to use the product the lights need to be on and photosynthesis occurring.
I had a poster disagree with me on this point last night, do you know the in tank half life of excel by any chance? I thought I read it was 12 hours, but the other poster said 24?
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-20-2014, 05:57 AM
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Hi FatherLandDecendant,

Per Seachem:
Quote:
Q: Is it better to add Flourish Excel at night or in the morning based upon plant carbon uptake physiology?

A: Carbon intake is a function of photosynthesis. Based on this, it would be ideal to dose Flourish Excel during the day. But given that Flourish Excel can stay complexed as a carbon source for up to 24 hours before it dissipates, you can dose at any time of the day and the product will be available for the next 24 hours. Flourish Excel is not carbon dioxide and there is no impact on pH using Flourish Excel.

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-20-2014, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by FatherLandDescendant View Post
I had a poster disagree with me on this point last night, do you know the in tank half life of excel by any chance? I thought I read it was 12 hours, but the other poster said 24?
Excel is not gluteraldehyde. Excel has been modified to make it more stable and safer than pure gluteraldehyde (metricide) which is why it has a 24 hour half life.

This link has a really good article about Gluteraldehyde - its half life is 12 h and give a lot more info on the break down in water etc...

http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedL...romPage=GetDoc

Here is an abstract from another paper:
"Material balance studies of glutaraldehyde in a river water–sediment system demonstrate that glutaraldehyde preferred to remain in the water phase. Glutaraldehyde was metabolized rapidly under both aerobic and anaerobic conditions. The pseudo-first-order half-life of catabolism, based on the loss of glutaraldehyde from the water phase, was 10.6 h aerobically and 7.7 h anaerobically. In contrast, under sterile conditions at pH 5 or 7, no appreciable degradation of glutaraldehyde was observed over a 31-day period. At pH 9, about 30% of the glutaraldehyde degraded over the same period. The major degradate was identified as 3-formyl-6-hydroxy-2-cyclohexene-1-propanal, a cyclicized dimer of glutaraldehyde. The extrapolated half-life of abiotic degradation was 508 days at pH 5, 102 days at pH 7, and 46 days at pH 9. Under aerobic conditions, glutaraldehyde was first biotransformed into the intermediate glutaric acid, which then underwent further metabolism ultimately to carbon dioxide. Metabolism of glutaraldehyde under anaerobic conditions did not proceed ultimately to methane, but terminated with the formation of 1,5-pentanediol via 5-hydroxypentanal as an intermediate."
From:
Aerobic and Anaerobic Metabolism of Glutaraldehyde in a River Water–Sediment System.
By Leung, H.-W
Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, ISSN 0090-4341, 10/2001, Volume 41, Issue 3, pp. 267 - 273
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-20-2014, 06:21 AM
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Hi FatherLandDecendant,

Per Seachem:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zapins View Post
Excel is not gluteraldehyde. Excel has been modified to make it more stable and safer than pure gluteraldehyde (metricide) which is why it has a 24 hour half life.

This link has a really good article about Gluteraldehyde - its half life is 12 h and give a lot more info on the break down in water etc...

http://msdssearch.dow.com/PublishedL...romPage=GetDoc

Here is an abstract from another paper:
"Material balance studies of glutaraldehyde in a river water–sediment system demonstrate that glutaraldehyde preferred to remain in the water phase. Glutaraldehyde was metabolized rapidly under both aerobic and anaerobic conditions. The pseudo-first-order half-life of catabolism, based on the loss of glutaraldehyde from the water phase, was 10.6 h aerobically and 7.7 h anaerobically. In contrast, under sterile conditions at pH 5 or 7, no appreciable degradation of glutaraldehyde was observed over a 31-day period. At pH 9, about 30% of the glutaraldehyde degraded over the same period. The major degradate was identified as 3-formyl-6-hydroxy-2-cyclohexene-1-propanal, a cyclicized dimer of glutaraldehyde. The extrapolated half-life of abiotic degradation was 508 days at pH 5, 102 days at pH 7, and 46 days at pH 9. Under aerobic conditions, glutaraldehyde was first biotransformed into the intermediate glutaric acid, which then underwent further metabolism ultimately to carbon dioxide. Metabolism of glutaraldehyde under anaerobic conditions did not proceed ultimately to methane, but terminated with the formation of 1,5-pentanediol via 5-hydroxypentanal as an intermediate."
From:
Aerobic and Anaerobic Metabolism of Glutaraldehyde in a River Water–Sediment System.
By Leung, H.-W
Archives of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology, ISSN 0090-4341, 10/2001, Volume 41, Issue 3, pp. 267 - 273
Thank You both
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-20-2014, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you for all the replies! I'll definitely be dosing in the morning now, so it's most active during the daylight hours.
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