Nutrient deficiency?? Pics.. - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-19-2014, 06:01 PM Thread Starter
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Nutrient deficiency?? Pics..




I just switched to rodi water and im mixing it about 90/10 rodi/tap..

My tap is like gh20 and 450+tds so im trying to mix it to about 3-4gh and then add gh booster as per recommended amount by ei.

My water wisteria and rotala rotundifolia are wrinkling quite badly... not sure what to do.. dont mind the gsa on the lower leaves.. that is just left over still from my cursed tap water algae issues.

Tank is high tech.. co2 @ 40ish ppm
60par at sub.. following ei + one dose of fe per week with first micro day. All params look normal to me.

Let me know if u need more Info.. sorry if pics r close enough.. took it with my phone In a hurry..


Thanks
Jeff
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 12:21 AM Thread Starter
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Can a mod plz move this to the plant section?? I forgot there was a plant folder.. I knew it wasnt algae and just went with ferts.. sorry..
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 01:03 AM
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I need to step in. This is NOT a safe tank for an axolotl.

It seems to me that you have gravel in the tank. First big issue. They can ingest it, leading to deadly digestive blockages. Second, fertilizers and CO2 in that amount are NOT safe for them, especially the ferts. Their skin is EXTREMELY permeable.

Also, I'm assuming it's heated. Axolotls need temps. LOWER than 70 F, preferably 60-64 F.

PLEASE either re-home this lotl or set up a proper tank for it. Even from that brief appearance in the picture, I can tell it's unhealthy.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 01:30 AM
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First of all, agreeing with kcoscia, that axolotl needs a different setup so it doesn't get sick and stressed.

As for the plants, I think from what I've read that wrinkled leaves are from a lack of calcium and/or minerals... Im not sure what the problem would be with your tank, however.
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 02:45 AM
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Iron maybe but like my name says im a noob
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 03:51 AM Thread Starter
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Shes not moving.. shes been in the tank over a year.. no issues. She eats about a half an earthworm a day and guppies occasionally. . A betta once.. and is very active. her belly is about as wide as her head so idk why u think she looks unhealthy.. maybe the angle of the pic.. but shes not going in my big tank.. cichlids would make quick dinner of her.. ive honestly never had a single issue with her.. always comes to the front when im at the tank.. seems healthy.
Thanks for your concern tho.

And yeah I thought ca could b low too.. ive been looking for an iron test kit for a while but cant find one local.. ill prolly have to ebay it.. unless someone on the forum sells them and glady support the hobby and send my money their way.
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 04:03 AM
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I would double up on the micro's for a week and see if things get better. 90% Ro doesn't leave alot for the plants. If Co2 is good, lights are good, then its either micros or macro's. If they still look bad after that I would double up macro's for a week. If they still look bad after that its a co2 issue, whether it be amount or distribution.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 06:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poormanisme View Post
I would double up on the micro's for a week and see if things get better. 90% Ro doesn't leave alot for the plants. If Co2 is good, lights are good, then its either micros or macro's. If they still look bad after that I would double up macro's for a week. If they still look bad after that its a co2 issue, whether it be amount or distribution.
Scott
Ok I will try that...

Iron is the only thing I cant test.. so I cant really test micros... I will try doubling them for a week or two..

My co2 is through inline diffuser. About 3-4bps looks like sprite.. lol drop checker turns green about the time the lights come on.. its about as high as the fish can handle.. I thought... lol
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 12:00 PM
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Between this post and ur previous one where your axolotls gills were inflamed due to liquid co2 use numerous ppl have told you that these creatures do not belong in a high tech tank. Their eyes don't close for one. They need dim lighting. I can put u in a room with super bright lights on you for 7+ hours a day and tape ur eyes open, you wont die, but I m sure you will be miserable. Could this go for fish too, maybe. Every forum and axolotl care sheet specifies no bright light. But why listen right. Urs is still alive. I can only imagine how bad long term ei ferts, especially iron while dosing. Do what you want, I just don't understand how ppl think they can do the total opposite to animals what is recommended and just because the animal is alive still they consider their actions perfectly fine. Its not always about simply alive. I wouldn't rescue a dog to chain him up to a tree, I don't rescue a cat for my English mastiff to have as a toy. We get pets to provide them a home, a comfortable safe home. We do everything so they are comfortable and can live as long as possible. You are treating your axolotl as a decoration to your plants because clearly his needs are not your priority. Do i have an axolotl? No I do not, but I can read and there are a bunch of dedicated forums for them, including Caudata.org(I believe that is it). Do ur reading and what is in the best interest of your pet.

If in doubt, add more plants!

My not-enough-plants-but-not-enough-space-to-put-anymore-so-will-start-going-up-box-of-water.

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 01:12 PM
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If you're following EI correctly it's not a deficiency. If you post the information below we can eliminate deficiencies quite easily.

What size is your tank?
EXACTLY what are you dosing?
What is your dosing schedule?
Water change schedule?
Any current water quality test results?
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 02:20 PM
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ive had this leaf curling once. it turned out due to strong sunlight in the room leaves curved towards window when lights went off and back when light came on.

informing OP on axolot care is right thing to do but at the same time i think this thread should be kept on original topic.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepguy View Post
Between this post and ur previous one where your axolotls gills were inflamed due to liquid co2 use numerous ppl have told you that these creatures do not belong in a high tech tank. Their eyes don't close for one. They need dim lighting. I can put u in a room with super bright lights on you for 7+ hours a day and tape ur eyes open, you wont die, but I m sure you will be miserable. Could this go for fish too, maybe. Every forum and axolotl care sheet specifies no bright light. But why listen right. Urs is still alive. I can only imagine how bad long term ei ferts, especially iron while dosing. Do what you want, I just don't understand how ppl think they can do the total opposite to animals what is recommended and just because the animal is alive still they consider their actions perfectly fine. Its not always about simply alive. I wouldn't rescue a dog to chain him up to a tree, I don't rescue a cat for my English mastiff to have as a toy. We get pets to provide them a home, a comfortable safe home. We do everything so they are comfortable and can live as long as possible. You are treating your axolotl as a decoration to your plants because clearly his needs are not your priority. Do i have an axolotl? No I do not, but I can read and there are a bunch of dedicated forums for them, including Caudata.org(I believe that is it). Do ur reading and what is in the best interest of your pet.
Im a frequent visitor of caudata.. when I got her I was lied to by the fish store.. they said she could live in any tank and that she was super easy care.. I didnt find out about the rocks and digestive problems and light and temps and all that till I joined caudata, trying to provide her the best care.. ive also read about all her stress signs ( curved tail, Hunched back, gills forward, etc).. at that point it was really too late, she was already at my house for a week or so.. I know the tank isnt her ideal setup, but im telling u I never see her acting stressed, shes always active, eats plenty, comes right up to me when im in the tank... to me it doesnt look like shes just surviving.. she looks and acts happy as far as I can tell.. maybe she just isnt as sensitive as others... idk, but I cant afford to setup another tank for her right now, so lets just stay on the plant subject. I do appreciate your concern.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
If you're following EI correctly it's not a deficiency. If you post the information below we can eliminate deficiencies quite easily.

What size is your tank?
EXACTLY what are you dosing?
What is your dosing schedule?
Water change schedule?
Any current water quality test results?
25 gal. 50% water change every week.. I never miss it lol. 90/10
Rodi/ tap

Ei ferts schedule:

Monday before photoperiod
50% wc
1/2tsp gh booster
1/4tsp kno3
1/8 tsp kh2po4 (1/16tsp is recommended, was having gsa issues so I doubled it)

Tuesday
10ml csm+b.. I mix it with 2x the water so my measurements r more consistent..
1/16 tsp fe 10% chelate

Wednesday
1/4 tsp kno3
1/8 tsp kh2po4

Thursday
10ml csm+b

Friday
1/4 tsp kno3
1/8 tsp kh2po4

Saturday
10ml csm+b

Sunday
No ferts

Ph: about 6.4 right now during co2 run.. I havent checked my natural ph since ive been running some rodi water.. I just pulled a cup to let sit tho since im curious of that.

Tds 200ppm
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 20ppm
Gh 8
Kh 7
Phosphate 2-5ish
I think I might have a ca test kit but I thought I lost it when I moved so ill look for that.

I made some 6kh solution for my drop checker a while back and still use it.. should turn green at 40ppm co2.. its green.... 3-4bps through inline diffuser..

Light setup is 96watts of Diy 3w stevesleds controlled by typhon board and meanwell lddh drivers. I went with a little overkill on that lol. Set way low at 60 par @ sub, 200par @ surface.. for 8hours with and hour fade times up and down.. I have one of hoppys par meters. handy thing..

I was just checking my bubble counter and I noticed a little crack in the clear water chamber.. im gonna get some soapy water and investigate.. ill report back on that soon..


Thats everything I can test right now.. I know I have all the equipment to have an awesome tank.. just the operator is the weak link right now lol.. I wish someone on the forum lived close Kalamazoo. Ive never even seen another planted tank but mine in person.

Thanks for your help!
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 03:34 PM
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The dosing looks more than adequate. I don't know what 10ml of csm is since it's a dry fertilizer. I didn't quite understand your explanation. I'm assuming you're dosing enough csm since the other amounts are accurate. An 1/8 teaspoon is about right.

That eliminates deficiencies. Don't bother chasing ghosts.

That leaves lighting and CO2. Too much light? Possible. Not enough CO2? Another possibility. You can try increasing CO2 and see if that helps. I realize you have a drop checker but your plants are telling you otherwise. Another option is to reduce the lighting. If it were me those are the two things I would focus on.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 05:06 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
The dosing looks more than adequate. I don't know what 10ml of csm is since it's a dry fertilizer. I didn't quite understand your explanation. I'm assuming you're dosing enough csm since the other amounts are accurate. An 1/8 teaspoon is about right.

That eliminates deficiencies. Don't bother chasing ghosts.

That leaves lighting and CO2. Too much light? Possible. Not enough CO2? Another possibility. You can try increasing CO2 and see if that helps. I realize you have a drop checker but your plants are telling you otherwise. Another option is to reduce the lighting. If it were me those are the two things I would focus on.
Ok I checked my csm+b mix.. I have only been dosing 1/16tsp 3x a week.. should I up that to 1/8tsp??

I also made some real soapy water and went over every connection, the bubble counter, the inline diffuser, and no leaks so the co2 system should b solid..

I will try increasing my micros and see how that goes for a few weeks and report back... now the waiting game lol.

Does 60par sounds like too much for a high tech tank??
I have: 4 deep red leds
4 cool blue leds
5 cool white leds
19 neutral white leds
All 3w no optics.

I figure the spectrum should b pretty balanced. I run each channel about 70% and the fixture is over a foot off the tank.. I read an article on the barr report that was about the lights being on the tank and above the tank. I figured the higher it was the less extreme the par difference would b from surface to substrate.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 08-20-2014, 06:20 PM
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I would bump the Plantex up to 1/8 teaspoon. However, I really don't think that's your problem.

60 par is pretty high light. However, it's not too high with appropriate CO2 levels. I can't lay my hands on an article I read but it was about non-limiting light being around 85 par if memory serves me correctly. With 60 par you do need a good amount of CO2. The closer we get to non-limiting light and/or CO2 the faster problems arise.

You might be surprised at the growth you can achieve with lower light if you still inject CO2. I think it's better for newcomers to use medium light with CO2 injection. I know that may sound crazy but it allows more time to correct issues while still maintaining very high growth rates. CO2 is one of the hardest things to get right. Add very high light to that and it's like balancing a ball bearing on the back of a spoon in a moving vehicle. Easier said than done.
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