EI dry to liquid question. - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 05:38 PM Thread Starter
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EI dry to liquid question.

Hey all. Got my fertilizer today finally to start EI dosing. I'm trying to make it as easy as possible for the wife to handle when I'm away for work. Got the ferts from aquariumfertilizer.com and on their FAQ page there is a formula for mixing dry to liquid.

I followed the instructions and ended up with a mixture of all ferts that they say dose 1-4 drops per day and adjust accordingly. My question is how do info about figuring out the EI dosing for this liquid lol.

I mixed 2 tsp of each of the 4 ferts (csm+b and macros) to 1\4 cup water each. So it ended up with 2tsp each into 1 cup water as there are 4 ferts. I have them is droppers and I also added 5ml of excel to the mix as I had read that a mix of 5ml to 250ml will help keep the very from getting algae in the bottle.

Any ideas on how to dose this liquid in the EI method? Or if its even poasible. I have the mixture in dropper bottles.

The tank is a 20high with some dwarf hairgrass 2 swords and a bunch of moss. Also have some duckweed kicking around the surface. Light is the current USA satellite led+ 24-36" which they are saying is 1k lumina and 36 par at 12" and 28 at 18". There is about 15-16" from substrate to light. Also have pressurized co2 injection.
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 07:31 PM
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Here's a calculator: http://calc.petalphile.com/

Just put in the tank size, click us gal, then click on diy, select which fertilizer you're dosing, now click "a solution", enter how much the bottle solution is, each dose is 5ml, now select "the estimative index" and then click on the gimmie button.

45g Long - High Light Planted Tank / 30g - Plant Grow Out Tank / 100g Tank - currently resealing
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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxUnRaTeDxxRkOxx View Post
Here's a calculator: http://calc.petalphile.com/

Just put in the tank size, click us gal, then click on diy, select which fertilizer you're dosing, now click "a solution", enter how much the bottle solution is, each dose is 5ml, now select "the estimative index" and then click on the gimmie button.

That's exactly what I needed. Much much thanks.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 08:36 PM
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I think it's easiest to just decide how long you want your solution to last and calculate it out. For example, let say you switch off between Micros and Macros each day, not dosing on days you change the water. That's 3 times per week per solution. Then if you want it to last for 4 weeks, then multiply that number by 4. That means you dose each solution 12 times before it is done. Get a container that that is 120ML, you then does 10 ML per day of each.

To mix, all you do is multiply the daily amount by 12, then just measure it out. Depending on your tank size, it may make it easier to measure the larger amount. You don't need any scale, just measuring spoons.

I hope my math was right, having a foggy day haha.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 09:00 PM
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Did you mix the CSM+B into the same water as the Macros? I hope not. You can mix Macros together (so KNO3, KH2PO4, and K2SO4), but Micros must be mixed separate, and should be dose on opposite days. It's hard to tell from your post, because you say you put them in separate containers, but then said you had 1 cup. That aside, assuming you didn't mix them up, for your size tank:

KNO3: EI dosing says 1/8 tsp of KNO3 3x per week (I do MWF). Your 2 tsp mix means you have a total of 16 doses. If you have a 1/4 c of that liquid, that means you have 12 tsp of liquid. To spread that into 16 doses, you'd be looking at 3/4 tsp (or 3.75 mL) per dose for KNO3, 3x per week.

KH2PO4: EI dosing says 1/32 tsp of KH2PO4 3x per week (I do MWF). Your 2 tsp mix means you have a total of 64 doses. If you have a 1/4 c of that liquid, that means you have 12 tsp of liquid. To spread that into 64 doses, you'd be looking at between 1/5 and 1/6 tsp per dose for KH2PO4, 3x per week. That won't work well, because they don't make spoons that size. 1/4 c is also 59 mL, which is pretty close to 64, so for the purposes of making it easy, I'd probably say just do 1mL per dose, 3x per week. EI doesn't require that much precision, where such a tiny difference matters.

K2SO4: See KH2PO4 above. It's the same 1/32 tsp 3x per week dose (I do MWF).

CSM+B: See KH2PO4 above. It's the same 1/32 tsp 3x per week dose, on opposite days of the Macros (I do TTS).

That sounds like a giant pain in the ass to me. First off, you can mix all of the Macros together, but only if they are in the correct ratios together. You can't mix what you have exactly as it is, because you'd either under-dose KNO3, or over-dose the others.

To make your mixes easier to use, I'd get the ratios of the Macros in line so you can mix them together. That means you need 4x as much KNO3, or 1/4 as much KH2PO4 and K2SO4. It's up to you if you want to make a bigger batch (add 2 Tbsp of KNO3), or a smaller batch (dump out 3/4 of each KH2PO4 and K2SO4). Either will work (for 16 total doses or 64 total doses), but 64 doses is a lot and might mold before you use it all (that's 21 weeks worth). Definitely keep it in the fridge.

Once you get your ratios in line, come up with how much liquid you want to dose each time to make it easy for you to measure and store. When I was hand dosing liquid ferts, I used a handy http://www.amazon.com/Monoject-Oral-Medication-Syringe-With/dp/B001AIKUZG to keep from spilling. If you want 10 mL doses, and you make your batch into 64 total doses, you'd need to make the liquid volume 640 mL. If you want 10 mL doses and made your batch into 16 doses, you'd only need 160 mL.

For your micros, you have 64 total doses already, so just decide on dose size and set your volume accordingly (dose size x 64 = volume).

Also, you can use some Excel to fill some of the volume to inhibit algae growth.

Does that all make sense?

Quote:
Originally Posted by talontsiawd View Post
I hope my math was right, having a foggy day haha.
DITTO!


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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-28-2014, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherHobby View Post
Did you mix the CSM+B into the same water as the Macros? I hope not. You can mix Macros together (so KNO3, KH2PO4, and K2SO4), but Micros must be mixed separate, and should be dose on opposite days. It's hard to tell from your post, because you say you put them in separate containers, but then said you had 1 cup. That aside, assuming you didn't mix them up, for your size tank:

KNO3: EI dosing says 1/8 tsp of KNO3 3x per week (I do MWF). Your 2 tsp mix means you have a total of 16 doses. If you have a 1/4 c of that liquid, that means you have 12 tsp of liquid. To spread that into 16 doses, you'd be looking at 3/4 tsp (or 3.75 mL) per dose for KNO3, 3x per week.

KH2PO4: EI dosing says 1/32 tsp of KH2PO4 3x per week (I do MWF). Your 2 tsp mix means you have a total of 64 doses. If you have a 1/4 c of that liquid, that means you have 12 tsp of liquid. To spread that into 64 doses, you'd be looking at between 1/5 and 1/6 tsp per dose for KH2PO4, 3x per week. That won't work well, because they don't make spoons that size. 1/4 c is also 59 mL, which is pretty close to 64, so for the purposes of making it easy, I'd probably say just do 1mL per dose, 3x per week. EI doesn't require that much precision, where such a tiny difference matters.

K2SO4: See KH2PO4 above. It's the same 1/32 tsp 3x per week dose (I do MWF).

CSM+B: See KH2PO4 above. It's the same 1/32 tsp 3x per week dose, on opposite days of the Macros (I do TTS).

That sounds like a giant pain in the ass to me. First off, you can mix all of the Macros together, but only if they are in the correct ratios together. You can't mix what you have exactly as it is, because you'd either under-dose KNO3, or over-dose the others.

To make your mixes easier to use, I'd get the ratios of the Macros in line so you can mix them together. That means you need 4x as much KNO3, or 1/4 as much KH2PO4 and K2SO4. It's up to you if you want to make a bigger batch (add 2 Tbsp of KNO3), or a smaller batch (dump out 3/4 of each KH2PO4 and K2SO4). Either will work (for 16 total doses or 64 total doses), but 64 doses is a lot and might mold before you use it all (that's 21 weeks worth). Definitely keep it in the fridge.

Once you get your ratios in line, come up with how much liquid you want to dose each time to make it easy for you to measure and store. When I was hand dosing liquid ferts, I used a handy 10 mL syringe to keep from spilling. If you want 10 mL doses, and you make your batch into 64 total doses, you'd need to make the liquid volume 640 mL. If you want 10 mL doses and made your batch into 16 doses, you'd only need 160 mL.

For your micros, you have 64 total doses already, so just decide on dose size and set your volume accordingly (dose size x 64 = volume).

Also, you can use some Excel to fill some of the volume to inhibit algae growth.

Does that all make sense?



DITTO!
Ya I did mix them all. Not a big deal as I only used 2 tps of each. I'll start over tonight and separate the macro and micro this time. Also is distilled water necessary? I was going to use tap water which is the well water I use for my water changes.
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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 12:43 AM
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Distiller water is preferred, but not necessary. I just used filtered tap water. If you want some help calculating your next mix, just post how much you'd like to dose each time, and how many weeks you want to mix up.


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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 07-29-2014, 06:26 AM
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EI for 20-40 gallon tank:
1/4 Tsp-KN03 3x a week So as little as 1/8 tsp if it is a low tech tank.
1/16 Tsp-KH2P04 3x aweek So as little as 1/32 tsp if it is a low tech tank.
1/2 Tsp-GH booster once a week ONLY if needed.
5ml or 1/16Tsp-Trace 3x a week or half that, 1/32 tsp for low tech tank.
Optional
1-2ml-Fe/Iron 3x a week About 1/4 of the amount of trace is fine.

20 gallon tank, dosed 3x per week would use, in one week:
3/8 tsp KNO3
3/32 tsp KH2PO4

3/32 tsp CSM+B
1/32 tsp Fe (near enough!)

Now, if you want to dose at 1 ml/3 gallons of water, that is 7ml each day of one or the other.
100 ml bottle = 14 doses. Add a tiny bit more and make it last 15 dosed days, or 3 weeks.
so, in 3 weeks that tank would need:
9/8 tsp (so make it 1 tsp + rounded 1/8 tsp) KNO3
9/32 tsp, (so close to 1/4 tsp that is OK. Make it just a little bit rounded.) KH2PO4
Put these in a 100ml bottle and you can add some Excel. I put the whole dose of Excel in the bottle, then I do not have to add it separately. Top off with water to 105 ml. (This is 3 weeks @ 7ml per dose)

9/32 tsp CSM+B (again, this is so close to 1/4 tsp, just use that much)
1/16 tsp rounded of Fe. (remember that the goal is about 1/4 as much Fe as CSM+B)
Add Excel, top off with water to 105ml.

For a high tech tank, double all the fertilizers, but leave the water amount and the dosing the same. That much more will dissolve (I hope!)
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