Quick question on DIY ferts and Glut dosages. - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-09-2014, 06:33 AM Thread Starter
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Quick question on DIY ferts and Glut dosages.

I have a 700 litre aquarium.
Good lighting .. LED .. and just wondering if the following are Ok for ferts.

DIY TPN+ 35ml daily
DIY Glut 1.5% 35ml daily. ( double dose ).

I was doing DIY TPN+ 10mL daily until yesterday when i increased it due to finding more info on dosage.
Your thoughts please.
Thanks.

Last edited by jacko5; 06-09-2014 at 06:58 AM. Reason: added more info.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-09-2014, 01:06 PM
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A lot depends on how much light you have.
And since I have no fast growing plants in the tank in which I use Excel, I can only go by what I've heard on here about how much it works to speed up plant growth.
The best estimate I've heard is 60% as much as injected CO2.
Listing what light you have will help.

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-09-2014, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko5 View Post
I have a 700 litre aquarium.
Good lighting .. LED .. and just wondering if the following are Ok for ferts.

DIY TPN+ 35ml daily
DIY Glut 1.5% 35ml daily. ( double dose ).

I was doing DIY TPN+ 10mL daily until yesterday when i increased it due to finding more info on dosage.
Your thoughts please.
Thanks.
Hi jacko, still working on that algae issue or just using glut for CO2?



Had to look up what TPN+ was though...
http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/t...-nitrate.3985/
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-10-2014, 06:28 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys.
Lighting is LED Chinese one quite powerful custom made ( thanks Jeff ).
Running the light on 50% for 8 hours.
Using glut for co2 and algae issue.
Plants doing Ok but could be better.
I am getting the dark hairy algae on plants.
Doing 50% water changes weekly.
Maybe the tank has to settle to the lighting and ferts as its only been a couple of months and may need to settle in.
Yes Jeff the TPN+ is the homemade ferts its supposed to be quite good.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-10-2014, 02:41 PM
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Personally I'd cut back ferts till the glut had a chance to kill the algae and the plants had a chance to cut the nutrient load down.....

Also some faster growers would help.....
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-10-2014, 03:06 PM
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If that is Cladophora the glut won't kill it unless applied directly. It will slow it down
and seems to have a bit more effect on GSA.
Some have said "I don't know if it's true or not but..." and I don't recall anyone saying out right that it's not true, but Micro and Macros are dosed on seperate days because
something in the macros will be hindered if iron is dosed at the same time. Don't
remember which nutrient it is but just concerned that you only mentioned a single dose
of that TPN+ so does that have both the micro and macro together ?

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-10-2014, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
If that is Cladophora the glut won't kill it unless applied directly. It will slow it down
and seems to have a bit more effect on GSA.
Some have said "I don't know if it's true or not but..." and I don't recall anyone saying out right that it's not true, but Micro and Macros are dosed on seperate days because
something in the macros will be hindered if iron is dosed at the same time. Don't
remember which nutrient it is but just concerned that you only mentioned a single dose
of that TPN+ so does that have both the micro and macro together ?
example:
Quote:
Here goes for my DIY TPN+.

19.2g Ammonium Nitrate
2.2g Potassium Phosphate (monobasic)
10g Potassium Sulphate
17g Magnesium Sulphate Heptahydrate (Epsom Salts)
5g Aqua Essentials Trace Elements Mix
0.5g E300 Ascorbic Acid
0.2g E202 Potassium Sorbate
500ml distilled water

Quote:
Aqua Essentials trace:
Boron (B) 1.06%
Copper (Cu) 0.23%
Iron (Fe) 8.2%
Manganese (Mn) 1.82%
Molybdenum (Mo) 0.15%
Zinc (Zn) 1.16%
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-12-2014, 01:51 PM
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I see more than one problem here. I would try reducing the light by reducing photo period, raising the light, screening it off etc. The choice is yours. High light and no CO2 will cause a CO2 limitation leading to algae.

Did you use ammonium nitrate in your mix? This is another likely cause of algae. You may be able to get away with it at a PH of 6.5 and below. Over that causes ammonia not ammonium which can increase the chance of algae. I personally don't like the ratios of TPN. It seems too high on the nitrogen side compared to everything else. But it seems to work for many people so idk.

You can try Algaefix if you don't have sensitive invertebrates. This will get rid of what you have and correcting the problems will prevent it's return.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-14-2014, 08:51 AM Thread Starter
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Many thanks for the info guys
I think i need to run co2, so i have just ordered this,

http://www.co2art.co.uk/collections/...magnetic-valve

With the improved needle valve.
I already have this in situ on my external filter,

http://www.co2art.co.uk/collections/...m-16-22mm-hose

Can i run glut and co2 together ?
I do not want to over do things.
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-14-2014, 12:52 PM
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Congratulations on getting CO2!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko5 View Post
Can i run glut and co2 together ?
You can. However, it's not necessary with CO2 injection. The only reason you may want to use glut is for spot treating algae. I personally wouldn't bother but it won't hurt anything.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-14-2014, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
Congratulations on getting CO2!



You can. However, it's not necessary with CO2 injection. The only reason you may want to use glut is for spot treating algae. I personally wouldn't bother but it won't hurt anything.
Thanks for that.
Co2 regulator arrived this morning.
I have Co2 running through the diffuser above just not sure if the Co2 is entering the tank.
I have read that the pressure has to be 3 bar or more.

Small video of the setup, not very good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTEp...ature=youtu.be

All the water disappears from the diffuser when the Co2 is switched on.
I can not see Co2 bubbles entering the tank as is enters the tank via a spray bar type thing as the diffuser is an inline one.
PH is 7.1 ish.
But i have a bag of coral gravel controlling the PH level so maybe i should take that out of the tank .. i think .. ??

Last edited by jacko5; 06-14-2014 at 02:54 PM. Reason: added more info
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-15-2014, 03:15 PM
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I've never bothered with adjusting the KH. Of course I'm more interested in the plants rather than the inhabitants. It's not necessary for the plants. So basically you could remove the coral if you're not keeping something that REQUIRES a specific KH/PH.

The bubble rate seems awfully slow for a 700 liter tank. Generally, a PH drop of 1 is about right. You can use a KH/PH CO2 chart or calculator to get an idea of where you're at. Those calculations are based on carbonates being the only buffer which it's not. This means the calculated CO2 level will always be higher than it actually is.

It can take a few days (or weeks) to get the CO2 levels adjusted initially. The best method is to watch your fish. Adjust a little every day until you see signs of distress. Then reduce the bubble rate back to the previous setting. That would be your maximum safe CO2 concentration.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-16-2014, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorfox View Post
I've never bothered with adjusting the KH. Of course I'm more interested in the plants rather than the inhabitants. It's not necessary for the plants. So basically you could remove the coral if you're not keeping something that REQUIRES a specific KH/PH.

The bubble rate seems awfully slow for a 700 liter tank. Generally, a PH drop of 1 is about right. You can use a KH/PH CO2 chart or calculator to get an idea of where you're at. Those calculations are based on carbonates being the only buffer which it's not. This means the calculated CO2 level will always be higher than it actually is.

It can take a few days (or weeks) to get the CO2 levels adjusted initially. The best method is to watch your fish. Adjust a little every day until you see signs of distress. Then reduce the bubble rate back to the previous setting. That would be your maximum safe CO2 concentration.
Thanks for the info
I have upped the co2 on the aquarium.
I came home from work today and looked at the drop checker in the tank it was lime green.
So i am thinking 30ppm of co2 great.
So i thought i would test the KH of my aquarium water.
I think it was KH1 as the first drop of KH liquid turned the water yellow, very pale but still yellow.
My PH is 6.5 ish and then KH 1 gives me 7.4pppm of co2 in the aquarium.
How can this be if the drop checker is lime green ? i thought a lime green drop checker was 30ppm of co2.
Am i right in thinking if i took the bag of coral gravel for the aquarium the PH would rise ?
I am sure i put it in there to lower the PH as it was 7.5 to 8 a while ago as we have very soft water in my area.
I have a community tank with no difficult fish to keep, so taking the coral gravel out would be Ok.
Maybe i should keep a diary.
God this co2 lark is baffling me.

Last edited by jacko5; 06-16-2014 at 07:29 PM. Reason: added more info.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-17-2014, 12:06 PM
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Drop checkers are notoriously inaccurate. If you're going to use one make make sure you use 4dkh water. Many of the directions say to use tank water. This is completely wrong. I view them more like a canary they used to use in mines. It won't tell you to much but it will alert you to huge swings like running out of CO2 or other mechanical problems.

I think you have the whole coral thing backwards. Coral raises KH. It won't lower PH at all.

I would warn you against increasing the CO2 and going to work. When you increase CO2 you really need to be around to watch your fish. That's one of the reasons I said it could take a few weeks. Many people with jobs don't have time to watch their tanks for hours each day. Go slow with the increases and watch your fish. You'll get there.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 06-18-2014, 04:29 AM
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your crushed coral is buffering th pH and not changing it a lot . It will raise it AFAICT.. If you haven't done it already, I'd leave it..
Quote:
Unfortunately, this has eliminated two H+ ions from the water, causing the ratio of hydrion to hydrate to swing in favor of the hydrate. The resulting equilibrium causes the PH to then go up. 40 If you have carbonate in your water, the pH can only go down so far. The lower the pH gets, the closer it gets to reaching the balance point that would be considered equilibrium between the hydrion and the carbonate. When you add more acid beyond that point, increasing the concentration of hydrion, you cause the carbonate to collide with the hydrion more often, and the carbonate/ hydrion interaction steps up to re-establish equilibrium. That keeps your pH from going down until you have reduced the carbonate concentration far enough.

I should mention here a very common misconception. People talk about having acidic water or alkaline water, based on whether their water is above or below a pH of 7.0. This is not entirely accurate. While it is true that acid water with a lot of carbonate added to it will see a rise in pH, that is not directly related to the carbonate level. It is related to the ratio of H+ to OH- ions. The CO3- will react with the H+ and eliminate it This will cause more H20 to break up into H+ and OH- ions. Because there were already some OH- ions present. this shifts the ratio thereby raising pH and making the water basic.

While adding carbonate will make water more basic, to a point; adding a hydrate such as Sodium Hydrate (NaOH) will not make the water more alkaline. In other words adding hydrate will not make the water pH stable or able to resist a drop in pH.

If you finish this section of the discussion and remember only that alkalinity is a resistance to a drop in pH, and not a high pH in and of itself, then you will have understood something significant.
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/gh_kh_ph.php

As to glut..it is still an "algaecide" to a degree.. and no longer necessary as a carbon source.. just do it in like say every other day, or every 3 day at normal or lower doses IF you still have some residual algae..Direct contact application is really a pia..

HP and low volume to start works best w/ that diffuser.. You can "hear" if it is working.. If you hear a hiss and not really gobs of bubbles in your hose it is dissolving well..

sorry I don't use a drop checker at this point, nor worry about gassing fish because currently I use a very fine injection rate w/ no worries about killing fish.. Also no real high rate of CO2 either. I'm not "optimizing" ... just supplementing..
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