Deficiency? Lots of (bad) pictures - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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Deficiency? Lots of (bad) pictures

Do we see an deficiency here?

I see some crypt melt, old leaves not being very happy, occasional old leaf holes and light new leaves.

I'm toying with phosphate deficiency since it have some algae going on.

Ideas?

I dose EI with daily excel and finnes planted+ on 6 hours

Nitrates were >40 (I did a water change once I noted this) and GH is at 3













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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 10:04 PM
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Can't really tell if it's the camera or actually the tank light but these pictures make
it difficult to identify any off colors. The Anubias always have very light new leaves
IME. Java Fern looks like it's been exposed to air long enough to get spots dried out
or is it just a new plant in there ?
It seems a bit heavy/w GSA on the Anubias(is that a "NANA")but in the fifth picture, what is that damaged plant to the right of the anubias ?
I do not have any extensive history of great plants. So ask others to comment on this but how far is it from the light to the sub ? I ask because 7-9 hrs is more like what plants naturally grow in and "outside" they get 12-14 in summer. So I'm asking why only 6 hrs. So I'm leaning in the direction that you have a light which is too intense
for not having injected CO2 and the shorter growing time per day doesn't do the plants any good for not long enough growing time each day. Just my thought on this matter.

The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-04-2014, 11:56 PM Thread Starter
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Java fern has been wet since day one, and has been in the tank for months now.
That anubias has always had algae on it, and it never really did anything or spread. The BBA doesn't seem to be associated with it. It's in a different location. To the right of the anubias is another anubias leaf from a different rhizome.

I don't believe the light is too intense, but I'm confused on your suggestions. Do you think I should allow for a longer photo period?

I'm thinking the algae also could be caused by my recent high nitrates. Maybe things will go away once the tank is stabilized.

I still feel like my plant growth isn't at the speed it was before. I think something is limiting it, but I haven't made any changes that I can think of.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-05-2014, 12:31 AM
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Do you mind taking more photos with a better camera? It is very difficult to tell what is going on there if anything.

Also, it is generally impossible to look at which type of algae is growing and make assumptions about a nutrient excess. There are thousands of species of algae that look similar to each other and I am sure each species has its own set of parameters.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-05-2014, 12:39 PM Thread Starter
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I can try!

I did some research and I believe the problem with the crypts is related to high nitrates.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-05-2014, 01:47 PM
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When you are dosing this EI, are you doing a 50% water change each week ?
Also do you have a high bio-load in this tank(many fish) ?
BTW that was GSA on the Anubia leaves not BBA.
I was hoping Zapins would drop in on this one as I have yet to see any actual deficiencies...more lke just plain poor growth. The Crypts look a bit flat in color though
so not as crisp/shiny looking on the leaves as they could be. The Wisteria looks like it's
doing well but possibly a bit light in color but lots of the color is washed out of these pictures making it hard to see very well.
The high nitrates may be caused by not a high enough percent of water change
and/or not on a regular weekly schedule. Weekly 50%(at least) water changes are very important/w EI.

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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-05-2014, 06:25 PM Thread Starter
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I do 50% per week. I'm honestly not sure what is rising the nitrates currently as my bioload has remained constant and I haven't had this spike before. I'm still exploring this.
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-05-2014, 07:26 PM
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AqAdvisor will give you a stocking level if you enter your fish/tank size into it.
One thing you can try to see if it helps the nitrates is to substitute 50% of your KNO3 with K2SO4. Some people actually just use the K2SO4 instead of the KNO3 in tanks which have high nitrates.
One other thing to consider is that you said you believe you see that the plant growth slowed down. If it did then all of the KNO3 is not being used as it was before.
BTW do you have the Anubias planted in the substrate ?
With as many post as you have I would think you would know this but just in case it
may have slipped past you, the Rhysome is not supposed to be under the sub but just the roots which hang down from it.
If you say you have recently moved a couple of things in there it shouldn't hurt much to move the Anubias into some shade. Not like under a iece of driftwood but just
next to a Wisteria so the tank light does not shine directly on it that much.
I wish I could see a picture of the whole tank. But I would make the light period 7 hrs
and change the KNO3 to K2SO4 till the nitrates come down some.
If you move the Anubias you might try to wipe off some of the algae very gently.
It may not move. Java Fern keeps leaves a long time but eventually they do deteriorate
and die. It's just that they are supposed to be replaced as time passes.
6 hrs is that amount of time which people normally tell those who have a bad hair algae
or green water algae problem to use till it clears up. 6 hrs in lower than a normal amount of time to keep lights on in a tank. 8-10 is more normal but with the GSA etc
I would only use 7 till the plants get growing better.
Try to remember that algae is but a symptom of a problem and treating only the symptom will just get it right back. Provide the plants with more of what they need to grow well and let them take care of the algae. You already have the carbon and the EI but the plants need longer light also.
Edit: I see the Anibias is on the wood. It probably does best there. I don't know if anyone told you but some of the Anubias only get about one new leaf every couple of months.

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Last edited by Raymond S.; 06-05-2014 at 07:32 PM. Reason: Edit:
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond S. View Post
I was hoping Zapins would drop in on this one as I have yet to see any actual deficiencies...more lke just plain poor growth.
I agree with you Raymond I also see any obvious signs of deficiency. It could simply be a limitation (but not total absence of a nutrient that is slowing down growth) I'm not sure if that is because the photos aren't clear enough to see them or if there just aren't any present at all.

I think I'll wait for the updated photos before making a final statement.
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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My stocking is fine with the filtration I have.
Anubias are one the driftwood, yes. They are also normally pretty shaded.
I upped the lighting to 8 hours before reading this, so we will see?

I removed a lot of crappy leaves yesterday on the crypts, anubias and java fern.
I did a huge water change and cleaned the filter even though it didn't seem to nasty.

I was considering the K2SO4 but I have premixed EI so I can't do that at the moment unless I buy all new macros dry separately.

Zapins the pictures may be tomorrow. Working a lot today!
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 01:49 PM
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Hmm well if you removed the bad leaves then you've removed the leaves with the symptoms of the deficiency (if it was one). So new photos probably won't help much :/
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 02:46 PM
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But if you don't mind, while your taking pictures include one of the whole tank.
I over did the filter capacity of one of my built in DIY bio-filters and it has at least enough bio media for 50g...in a 10g tank. But the amount of filtration compared to the amount of bio load in your tank may be very sufficient to handle the amount of fish. But the natural process of changing the ammonia to nitrites and then to nitrates
in a tank/w a large amount of fish in it will result in a higher level of nitrates as the
result. The filter is good for getting out the first two, the ammonia and the nitrite but theneaves you with those nitrates in there. Mostly saying yes a larger filter can handle a larger fish load but does give more nitrates at the end whichmeans you would need larger water changes to compansate. But on the better side of this, as the plants get growing well again they will help this by using more nitrates as they grow better.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 10:57 PM Thread Starter
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 11:21 PM
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I can see absolutely nothing on these new pictures that indicates a deficiency.
Both the Crypts and Anubias have three generation of leaves on them showing
normal growth on both. Might not be as fast as you would like it to be. And to an extent this can be seen because each plant only has one leaf in the two newer generations while the oldest group of leaves is more than one showing a slow down
in perhaps the last 60 days. Certainly nothing conclusive but in both plants still.
Most of the reason for my askingfor a full tank shot was to guestimate if the total
plant mass is anything like close to where it may have exceeded the amount of ferts you are using. That could cause the slow down. Like I can just look at a tank and see if it's near that point is likely more my head in the clouds than reality though.
Have you ever stated what size this tank is ?

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Last edited by Raymond S.; 06-07-2014 at 12:18 PM. Reason: correction
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 06-06-2014, 11:37 PM
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Hmm.

The plants do look fairly healthy and if there was a deficiency it would be in the very earliest stages. It is hard to tell from the photos if you have a deficiency or if they are healthy.

Though the newer leaves do look pale compared with the older growth. This might indicate a lack of iron since that shows up as pale new leaves. Though with iron deficiency you should not be seeing any old leaves deteriorating.

What are you adding for iron and how much?
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