Dry dosing and Nutrient Solution Recipes - Page 2 - The Planted Tank Forum
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post #16 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-28-2014, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by webskipper View Post
Zorfox is your calculator an exe?

It doesn't open on the iPhone.
Yes. It's only Windows based. To compile it for iPhone, Android, Mac OS and Linux I would need to upgrade to the new development version. Since this is only a hobbyfor me, $5,000 is not in the cards lol. Sorry.

I believe a user here, mistergreen, wrote a fertilizer app for the iPhone.

Last edited by Zorfox; 05-28-2014 at 09:45 PM. Reason: Added iPhone app link
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post #17 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 02:30 PM
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I've been looking for a guide like this since I'm torn between buying pre-mixed solutions for EI or going with Dry and mixing solutions myself. I'd prefer to dose with wet ferts, but I have a couple questions as I'm new to this. Are these levels considered the standard EI doses because I've seen different doses elsewhere such as:

For 10-20 gallons;
1/8 tsp KNO3
1/32 tsp KH2PO4
1/32 tsp K2SO4
1/32 tsp traces

This is significantly different from the above doses. I guess I can always convert to these levels....I'm just wondering what is considered standard EI? Any help/direction is appreciated. I'd like to purchase my ferts this week, but am shying away from mixing my own solutions as I'm confused to the standard.

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post #18 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 02:36 PM
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For color, I'll be dosing a 20 gallon high with high-medium light and CO2.

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post #19 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, the doses listed are standard EI doses. Here is a post explaining the basics of non-limiting nutrients. The EI levels we want to achieve are listed there as well. As far as how much each dose should be it depends on the tank. Since you have high light and CO2 a full EI dose would be appropriate.

NO3 (Nitrate) 7.5ppm
PO4 (Phosphate) 1.3ppm
K (Potassium) 7.5
Fe (Iron) 0.5ppm

Don't be torn between buying premixed solutions and dry fertilizers. It's as simple as adding the amount listed in water. If you go with premixed fertilizers you're basically paying for water and a sprinkle of dry fertilizers. Don't let the terminology confuse you. Just mix and dose
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post #20 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 04:40 PM
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Ok just finished reading your other post Zorfox. I think I have a better handle on it. So my plan was to get the EI ferts and 500mL bottles and mix the solution. Do you think it would be better to just mix single doses first to dial in my levels? One thing I noticed when reading your write-up was the discussion on nitrates. My tank is very stable at 20ppm nitrates, so I would be within range in that regard, so maybe I don't need to dose NO3.

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post #21 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 05:00 PM Thread Starter
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If you maintain that nitrate level no you don't need to dose KNO3. You may also want to check you phosphate levels. They may very well be within range as well. If so you can eliminate the K2HPO4.

I would mix each fertilizer separately until you get things dialed in. After that you can mix macros together and Plantex in another. Never mix Plantex with macros primarily KH2PO4.

If you don't use KNO3 dose extra K2SO4. The amount below are full EI doses without KNO3. Notice the dose size is larger. K2SO4 is not very soluble in water so a larger dose size is needed.

Element Levels from the doses listed below
PO4 1.3 ppm
P 0.424 ppm
K 8.0352 ppm
Fe 0.5 ppm
Mg 0.1072 ppm
dGH 0.0246
Cu 0.0069 ppm
B 0.0613 ppm
Mn 0.1432 ppm
Mo 0.0038 ppm
S 3.0755 ppm
Zn 0.0283 ppm

(x1) K2SO4 42.2 gm (approximately 6 1/2 teaspoons)
(x1) KH2PO4 4.72 gm (approximately 3/4 teaspoons)
(x1) Plantex CSM+B 19.32 gm (approximately 4 1/2 teaspoons)

The levels above are for a 20 gallon tank using a container size of 500 ml and a dose size of 15 ml.

I would recommend Nilocg here on the Planted Tank for your fertilizer needs. I like supporting members and his support is great.
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post #22 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 05:05 PM
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Thanks Zorfox. Very helpful! You da man! I was already looking into nilocg's stuff, so I'll take another look on your recommendation. I don't currently have a way to test phosphates. I'm just using API Master Kit, and API GK/KH test kit should be on my doorstep when I get home. Any recommendations on Phosphate test kit?

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post #23 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 05:14 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Zorfox. Very helpful! You da man! I was already looking into nilocg's stuff, so I'll take another look on your recommendation. I don't currently have a way to test phosphates. I'm just using API Master Kit, and API GK/KH test kit should be on my doorstep when I get home. Any recommendations on Phosphate test kit?
I use API. Cheap and in nearly any LFS. I think I paid $5 or so. Once you get everything dialed in you'll rarely ever need to test which is why I like cheap and easy.
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post #24 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 05:15 PM
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Perfect. Thanks again! Excited to get my CO2 and ferts regimen going!

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post #25 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by zorfox View Post
don't be torn between buying premixed solutions and dry fertilizers. It's as simple as adding the amount listed in water. If you go with premixed fertilizers you're basically paying for water and a sprinkle of dry fertilizers. Don't let the terminology confuse you. Just mix and dose
+1+2+3




Regards,
Tom Barr
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post #26 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-29-2014, 05:28 PM
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+1+2+3
Heh ok ok you guys convinced me! Dry it is!

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post #27 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 05:20 PM
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Do not get confused with the math, just follow the directions, add 2-3x a week the dry ferts, maybe make a liquid trace, dose that 3-5x a week etc. that's it. It'll soon be boring and routine.

In practice, there is no planted take that makes or breaks with some very careful precise metered like dosing routine. So do not worry about it, just add them as routine as you will.

The old days, folks use to claim the the careful dosing was some secret to algae, which was/is manure. So there are some that still believe it, or that there's something to it still, even after being resoundingly falsified over and over.

This is not about belief. EI does not care about that.
All it does is provide in accordance with Liebig's Law,a non limiting amount of ferts for 99%-99.9% of planted tanks.

You dose 2-4 things, that's it.
Done.

Most planted hobbyist got into the hobby mostly from the fish side of the hobby. We wanted a nice planted garden and something that looks nice. We did not get into the hobby to test PO4, NO3, pH etc.

I do not test this stuff any longer. I had to convince myself that it did not matter. I have the background to to know what I dosed and measured, but my goal was not really to do that, but rather, to garden and scape nice planted Dutch tanks. Amano was not around back then in the English speaking scene.

So do not lose sight of your original goal. A little bit of testing when done right, it can be useful, KH test kits(Lamotte are excellent) and pH meters are the most useful. Knowing what the tap water source is and the water report is also very helpful. I doubt you need more than that.

You can if you want.........but it will not help in any significant way for the gardening and goal.




Regards,
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post #28 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 07:08 PM
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Do you agree with the target levels that the fert calculators show?

Does EI dosing yield better results than the Perpetual method (PPS)?

I'm IE dosing.

Cheers!

-PhilipS ><>

Mr50's, Killer Plants, Whiskey Pond
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post #29 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 11:01 PM Thread Starter
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Do you agree with the target levels that the fert calculators show?

Does EI dosing yield better results than the Perpetual method (PPS)?

I'm IE dosing.
I realize your were asking Plantbrain for a response. However, I'd like to put my two cents in on this.

Plant growth can be limited by a number of variables. One being nutrients. Since we're discussing fertilizing methods why not eliminate that variable from the equation? PPS typically uses little PO4 and I can only assume it was because it was once thought that extra phosphate caused algae. However, this is not the case. It's been proven time and time again.

EI provides non-limiting nutrients. This eliminates nutrient deficiencies and allows hobbyists to concentrate on other things. Sure, many say CO2 and light but what about why we all initially became interested in this hobby? All of those things are "the mechanics" of keeping a planted tank. It seems to me that the vast majority of people dwell on these issues and ignore the art of a planted tank. The art is why I'm interested in this. Art can never be mastered. That's my kind of hobby!

Non-limiting nutrient solutions is nothing new. No offense to Tom Barr but it's been around in science for close to a century. Why haven't we used this approach before? Many STILL believe extra nutrients cause algae. I'm sure Tom bought into this at one time. The fact is, excess nutrients within reason do not cause algae or death of your stock. So why not simply provide more than the plants need and see what happens? I can only assume this is a question Tom asked himself long ago...thank god!

Time has shown that providing excess nutrients is a viable and safe option. Call it EI or anything you want. Just supply non-limiting nutrients and move on. The debates over this method or that seem pointless to me personally. It simply is what it is. Dose your tanks and enjoy the hobby. No need to over think the mechanics of this hobby. Mechanical information is out there in abundance. Learn the basics and then enjoy the art!
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post #30 of 179 (permalink) Old 05-30-2014, 11:43 PM
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Very good info. There was definitely a need for this.
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