First Full Week Of Dosing, Water Tests.... - The Planted Tank Forum
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-21-2008, 07:08 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Tamelesstgr's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 398
First Full Week Of Dosing, Water Tests....

I have had this 55 set up for two weeks now, first week was just water running with mulm, then last week I started adding my plants and dosing EI.

Here is a link to all my info: https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/yo...do=view&id=841

Tap Water:

PH - 7.5
GH - 7 Drops
KH - 5 Drops

Measurements 4/20/08:

PH - 8.0
GH - 8 Drops
KH - 6 Drops
Nitrite - 5.0 ppm
Nitrate - 10.0 ppm
Ammonia - 0.25 ppm
Phosphate - 10.0 ppm
Red Sea CO2 - Low (Blue)

I changed 10 gallons (25%) of my 55, and I noticed that this morning my Red Sea CO2 indicator was yellow. I dosed Excel 5ml and Traces last night after the water change. I have a powerhead that I turn off at night, but my spray bar still disturbs the water quite a bit, is that CO2 swing usual?

I still have not started up my DIY CO2 yet, still constructing the diffusor, but I did add most of my fish stock yesterday. (6) Rainbows (12) Head/Tailight Tetras (2) Oto's

Do those parameters seem to be inline, is there anything that I should be concerned about? I was going to measure everything again tonight, but should I also do this in the morning?

Thanks,
Ken


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tamelesstgr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-21-2008, 07:40 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
mpodolan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (60/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lenox, MI
Posts: 1,484
It looks like your tank is cycling (increase in ammonia->increase in nitrites->increase in nitrates). What are the tap parameters for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate? This will help us get a better gauge on what is going on in your tank.

Most of us try to keep our phosphates a bit lower than that (say 1-5ppm). However, it won't really hurt anything at 10ppm, as long as the plants aren't limited by something else (co2, nitrates, micros/traces). High phosphates as the cause for algae is a widely spread myth.

If you haven't added co2 yet, there won't be much in the tank (probably around 3ppm or so). Are you using a known dkh solution in the drop checker? Most of us use 4dkh solution, with bromothymol blue added as the color indicator. If you used tank water, the results will likely be useless. You need to know the kh of the water added for the results to be meaningful

Mike


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mpodolan is offline  
post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-21-2008, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Tamelesstgr's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 398
Ok, I can run the full list of tests on the tap water tonight.

For some reason my other tanks have high phosphates also. I do not overfeed, usually I feed 1 time a day.

I did use the water from the aquarium per the instructions. I will have to read up on the solution mentioned. Chuck's calculator told me based on the PH and KH that I have Low CO2 (Like 2 ppm)

I have experienced some good growth last week in many of the plants I purchased from the swap and shop by just dosing Excel and the dry ferts.

I have:

Bunch of Stargrass
2 kinds of Rotala
2 kinds of Ludwigia
Crypts
Java Ferns
8-12 stems of Hygro


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tamelesstgr is offline  
 
post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-21-2008, 07:53 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
mpodolan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (60/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lenox, MI
Posts: 1,484
Yea, the instructions they provide are junk. It's a shame they don't fix that

https://www.plantedtank.net/forums/eq...p-checker.html

http://www.njagc.net/articles/co2dropchecker.htm

They sell it here if you don't want to make your own
http://liquidarthome.net/khstandard

Mike


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mpodolan is offline  
post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-21-2008, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Tamelesstgr's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 398
So how do I determine if I need the 4dkh or the 5dkh?

So I would be adding the solution to the checker instead of tank water, then adding some type of coloration?

Sorry, I am a newb aspiring to be a better aquatic gardener.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tamelesstgr is offline  
post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-21-2008, 08:41 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
mpodolan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (60/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lenox, MI
Posts: 1,484
You can use either. I use the 4dkh, as it provides a nice green color when in the correct co2 range. You add the 4dkh solution (which is just clear distilled water that is brought up to 4kh by adding baking soda), then add the bromothymol blue (which is the same as the solution used for the Aquarium Pharmaceuticals pH test) to get a nice blue color. When this is placed in the tank, the co2 enters the air between the water and the drop checker solution. This reacts with the solution and changes the pH, which causes the solution to change color. This gives you an estimate of the amount of co2 dissolved in your tank.

Mike


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mpodolan is offline  
post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-21-2008, 10:14 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Tamelesstgr's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 398
Sounds good, I am going to go ahead and order some of the solution. I guess the re-agent from the Red Sea indicator is useless then?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tamelesstgr is offline  
post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-21-2008, 10:25 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
mpodolan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (60/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lenox, MI
Posts: 1,484
Well, according to this, it may be the bromothymol blue. I don't personally know for sure, but it very well could be

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/f...-question.html

Mike


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mpodolan is offline  
post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-21-2008, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Tamelesstgr's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 398
That would be good b/c I have the bottle that came with the tester and I bought a spare bottle so I would not have to re-order. I guess I will have to find out when the 4 dKH solution comes in.

Thanks for all the help so far!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tamelesstgr is offline  
post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-22-2008, 04:14 AM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Tamelesstgr's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 398
Ok, here are the test results for the tap water:

PH - 7.5
GH - 8 Drops
KH - 5 Drops
Nitrite - 0.0 ppm
Nitrate - 0.0 ppm
Ammonia - 0.0 ppm
Phosphate - 2.0 ppm

Re-measured the tank water tonight:

PH - 7.5
GH - 8 Drops
KH - 5 Drops
Nitrite - 1.0 ppm
Nitrate - 10.0 ppm
Ammonia - 0.0 ppm
Phosphate - 10.0 ppm
CO2 Still low

Unfortunatley also 2 of my tetras got sucked into my powerhead. There is a cone around the intake, so I stuck some filter wadding inside the cone to keep the fish out of there.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tamelesstgr is offline  
post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-22-2008, 07:20 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
Bromo blue is what you want to use. You may order it from the 4 KH ref solution vendors or, get it off ebay if you want bulk.

Realize that there is a trade off with the drop checker method: it's only as good as the color resolution between the pH color scale for bromo blue (and many folks only look for 3 colors, blue, green and yeller........ the variation is huge there) and it's takes about 2-4 hours of lag time versus what is actually in the tank for the drop checker to respond.

While convenient, the method is hardly precise, but has no interference from other forms of alklalinity(a +) but the accuracy and the response time are very poor( a -).

You might use a mixture of measures until, a reasonable priced CO2 meter becomes available. The cheapest is still 2500$

And you can hook it up to a universal controller and regulate CO2 taht way and not need to calibrate the probe for 2 years.
But that would cost 3000$ and take some technical know how.

I'm adding one such set up, but heck, unless it's 10X cheaper, no one is really going to bother.

However, the system is available and I have installed it.

pH/Kh charts and KH test/pH meters can get pretty close, but assumes that all the Kh is due to carbonate alkalinity. In some tap waters, make up water, this is true. But in others, it's way off.
The other issue is folks rarely measure throughout an entire day cycle

They take one reading per day to check.
Ideally, you would take readings every 1 hour or so.

Then you can see what the CO2 is doing throughout the entire day, otherwise you can miss poor CO2 ppm's in the morning but have high levels late in the day when you come home etc.

CO2 is ephemeral, and changes far faster and is more important to plant metabolism, biomass/growth rates and uptake than any other next to light(which in our tanks, it very stable overall).

So most of the focus should/would wise to be on CO2.
Plenty of folks have drop checkers and poor algae ridden tanks.
You need to keep better tabs than assuming that will cure most of the issues, it's great for a general quick rough glance.

Do not put too much faith in it however.

Regards
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 03:48 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Tamelesstgr's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 398
Ok, after another week of progress I have some more questions:

1) Is it best to dose ferts at night or in the morning?

2) How about Excel, will dosing Excel at night cause an unsafe PH swing? None of my fish seem unhappy, and the plants seems to have good growth. The 4Dkh solution in my CO2 meter has been green for a few days now.

3) I am thinking about just dosing Excel instead of the DIY CO2, it seems like the DIY is going to be a pain, plus I get a lot of bubbles and noise from my reactor for some reason.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tamelesstgr is offline  
post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-01-2008, 07:24 PM
Wannabe Guru
 
mpodolan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (60/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lenox, MI
Posts: 1,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamelesstgr View Post
Ok, after another week of progress I have some more questions:

1) Is it best to dose ferts at night or in the morning?

2) How about Excel, will dosing Excel at night cause an unsafe PH swing? None of my fish seem unhappy, and the plants seems to have good growth. The 4Dkh solution in my CO2 meter has been green for a few days now.

3) I am thinking about just dosing Excel instead of the DIY CO2, it seems like the DIY is going to be a pain, plus I get a lot of bubbles and noise from my reactor for some reason.
It doesn't really matter when you dose the ferts. As long as you ensure there are enough nutrients for the plants on a consistent basis, you'll be fine. Just pick the time when you will be most likely to add them on a consistent basis.

Excel won't affect your ph. CO2 causes ph to drop, but excel isn't co2, it's just a form of carbon for the plants.

You can just use excel if you want, but it does get expensive. I agree that DIY is a pain, so that's why i ended up going pressurized

Mike


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mpodolan is offline  
post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-02-2008, 02:42 PM Thread Starter
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Tamelesstgr's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Bolingbrook, IL
Posts: 398
I will be dosing Excel 45ml's a week, so if I buy the 2000ml bottle it will cost about $0.73 a week and last for 44 weeks. To me that may be easier and less hassle than DIY CO2.

Does the Red Sea CO2 indicator then necessarily show me if the CO2 levels are correct if I am using Excel?

It has been green all week since I added the 4dKH.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Tamelesstgr is offline  
post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-02-2008, 04:33 PM
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (267/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,609
I think as long as you can dose Excel, you have say 1.5-2.5 watt/gal or less, you should be fine with Excel, it does work well.

Generally, folks will have fewer algae issues as well.
BigAl's sells 4 liter jugs of excel for like 37$, that's about the best pricing.

Also, assume about 1/2 dosing, perhaps 1/3 for Excel vs CO2 for fertilizers, you do not need nearly as much if you use Excel.

Regards,
Tom Barr




Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline  
Reply

Tags
None

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome