2 day cycle? - The Planted Tank Forum
 
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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-29-2014, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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2 day cycle?

What am I missing?

I started a new 10 gallon tank. There are no plants in it right now. I seeded with a bit of gravel, carbon filter/bio balls, and a decoration from an established tank. I also put in about a cup of aquasoil to leech some ammonia.

This morning, I have maybe .1 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and maybe 30-40 nitrates. I haven't seen an ammonia or nitrite spike.

Is this tank cycled of is it just too early? The unfortunate missing info is that I do not remember where the nitrates started , but I think it was lower.

I'm going to do a water change to lower nitrates and see what happens, but if they climb again or steady and the ammonia and nitrites stay down, is it already cycled?
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-29-2014, 09:47 PM
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Why don't you put at least 5ppm of ammonia source and check it the next day, that should be able to tell you if you have enough bio bacteria. Two days is possible if you have enough bio filtration.
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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-29-2014, 10:53 PM
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I would wait a little bit to see if the amonia goes up
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-30-2014, 12:18 AM
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Definantly wait a bit, even a seeded filter tsnk will cycle some. You are better off to run the tank for a few weeks. Keep a source of ammonia and be safe. Rushing only leads to dead fish and you still end up waiting for it to balance out.

-Chris
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-30-2014, 02:00 AM
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Do you know how much ammonia you started with? The .1 may have been the same value you started with. I can't see where the ammonia source is. One cap of aquasoil is not going to do much if anything. There can be multiple reasons why you have some value for nitrates.

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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-30-2014, 06:10 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks all.

It's possible that some of the water from the original source tank (I'm transferring fish from one tank to another) had elevated nitrates and some of that water was transferred. That tank was somewhat neglected for awhile.

The ammonia was low to start. Regarding aquasoil, its was more than a capful that I put. I set a container in the tank that is full of a decent amount. I'm keeping it separate from the other gravel because I ultimately do not want to use it in this tank. Ammonia does look like it went up a tad to around .25 and nitrates seemed to rise some as well, but nitrites have remained at 0 so far.

I did a 25% water change and I'll check again in the morning where everything is at.
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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 01:47 AM
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I would quit playing around and just do the fishless cycle.
You add a known amount of ammonia, and by monitoring what the ammonia, NO2 and NO3 are doing you know how the bacteria are growing.

If you want to do some variation, then you at least need to know how much of each were in the original set up, and make a chart of each daily test to see how they are changing.

Best way to cycle the tank is to keep the ammonia up so the bacteria have plenty of food. Do not rely on odd sources of ammonia unless you are monitoring it.

Here is the fishless cycle:

Cycle: To grow the beneficial bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite from the aquarium.

Fish-In Cycle: To expose fish to toxins while using them as the source of ammonia to grow nitrogen cycle bacteria. Exposure to ammonia burns the gills and other soft tissue, stresses the fish and lowers their immunity. Exposure to nitrite makes the blood unable to carry oxygen. Research methemglobinemia for details.

Fishless Cycle: The safe way to grow more bacteria, faster, in an aquarium, pond, aquaponics or riparium.

The method I give here was developed by 2 scientists who wanted to quickly grow enough bacteria to fully stock a tank all at one time, with no plants helping, and overstock it as is common with Rift Lake Cichlid tanks. Further research over the years has fine tuned the details.

1a) Set up the tank and all the equipment. You can plant if you want. Include the proper dose of dechlorinator with the water.
Optimum water chemistry:
GH and KH above 3 German degrees of hardness. A lot harder is just fine. Minimum KH 5.6 degrees.
pH between 7 and 9, and in the upper 8s is optimum.
Temperature in the upper 70s F (mid 20s C) is good. Higher is OK if the water is well aerated. 77-86*F is optimum, with high oxygen level.
A trace of other minerals may help. Usually this comes in with the water, but if you have a pinch of KH2PO4, that may be helpful.
High oxygen level. Make sure the filter and power heads are running well. Plenty of water circulation. A biowheel is an example of high oxygen method, exposing the water to the air in very thin sheets.
No toxins in the tank. If you washed the tank, or any part of the system with any sort of cleanser, soap, detergent, bleach or anything else make sure it is well rinsed. Do not put your hands in the tank when you are wearing any sort of cosmetics, perfume or hand lotion. No fish medicines of any sort.
A trace of salt (sodium chloride) is OK, but not required.
This method of growing bacteria will work in a marine system, too. The species of bacteria are different.

1b) Optional: Add any source of the bacteria that you are growing to seed the tank. Cycled media from a healthy tank is good. Decor or some gravel from a cycled tank is OK. Live plants or plastic are OK. Bottled bacteria is great, but only if it contains Nitrospira species of bacteria. Read the label and do not waste your money on anything else.
At the time this was written the right species could be found in:
Dr. Tims One and Only
Tetra Safe Start
Microbe Lift Nite Out II
...and perhaps others.
You do not have to jump start the cycle. The right species of bacteria are all around, and will find the tank pretty fast.

2) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This ammonia is the cheapest you can find. No surfactants, no perfumes. Read the fine print. This is often found at discount stores like Dollar Tree, or hardware stores like Ace. You could also use a dead shrimp form the grocery store, or fish food. Protein breaks down to become ammonia. You do not have good control over the ammonia level, though.
Some substrates release ammonia when they are submerged for the first time. Monitor the level and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia at the levels detailed below.

3) Test daily. For the first few days not much will happen, but the bacteria that remove ammonia are getting started. Finally the ammonia starts to drop. Add a little more, once a day, to test 5 ppm.

4) Test for nitrite. A day or so after the ammonia starts to drop the nitrite will show up. When it does allow the ammonia to drop to 3 ppm.

5) Test daily. Add ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. If the nitrite or ammonia go to 5 ppm do a water change to get these lower. The ammonia removing species and the nitrite removing species (Nitrospira) do not do well when the ammonia or nitrite are over 5 ppm.

6) When the ammonia and nitrite both hit zero 24 hours after you have added the ammonia the cycle is done. You can challenge the bacteria by adding a bit more than 3 ppm ammonia, and it should be able to handle that, too, within 24 hours.

7) Now test the nitrate. Probably sky high!
Do as big a water change as needed to lower the nitrate until it is safe for fish. Certainly well under 20, and a lot lower is better. This may call for more than one water change, and up to 100% water change is not a problem. Remember the dechlor!
If you will be stocking right away (within 24 hours) no need to add more ammonia. If stocking will be delayed keep feeding the bacteria by adding ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. You will need to do another water change right before adding the fish.
__________________________

Helpful hints:

A) You can run a fishless cycle in a bucket to grow bacteria on almost any filter media like bio balls, sponges, ceramic bio noodles, lava rock or Matala mats. Simply set up any sort of water circulation such as a fountain pump or air bubbler and add the media to the bucket. Follow the directions for the fishless cycle. When the cycle is done add the media to the filter. I have run a canister filter in a bucket and done the fishless cycle.

B) The nitrogen cycle bacteria will live under a wide range of conditions and bounce back from minor set backs. By following the set up suggestions in part 1b) you are setting up optimum conditions for fastest reproduction and growth.
GH and KH can be as low as 1 degree, but watch it! These bacteria use the carbon in carbonates, and if it is all used up (KH = 0) the bacteria may die off.
pH as low as 6.5 is OK, but by 6.0 the bacteria are not going to be doing very well. They are still there, and will recover pretty well when conditions get better.
Temperature almost to freezing is OK, but they must not freeze, and they are not very active at all. They do survive in a pond, but they are slow to warm up and get going in the spring. This is where you might need to grow some in a bucket in a warm place and supplement the pond population. Too warm is not good, either. Tropical or room temperature tank temperatures are best. (68 to 85*F or 20 to 28*C)
Moderate oxygen can be tolerated for a while. However, to remove lots of ammonia and nitrite these bacteria must have oxygen. They turn one into the other by adding oxygen. If you must stop running the filter for an hour or so, no problem. If longer, remove the media and keep it where it will get more oxygen.
Once the bacteria are established they can tolerate some fish medicines. This is because they live in a complex film called Bio film on all the surfaces in the filter and the tank. Medicines do not enter the bio film well.
These bacteria do not need to live under water. They do just fine in a humid location. They live in healthy garden soil, as well as wet locations.

C) Planted tanks may not tolerate 3 ppm or 5 ppm ammonia. It is possible to cycle the tank at lower levels of ammonia so the plants do not get ammonia burn. Add ammonia to only 1 ppm, but test twice a day, and add ammonia as needed to keep it at 1 ppm. The plants are also part of the bio filter, and you may be able to add the fish sooner, if the plants are thriving.

Sources of information:
The basic method is from a site that is no longer up, and I do not remember the names.
Dr. Timothy Hovanec, several articles about the identification of the organisms in the nitrogen cycle in aquariums (both fresh and salt water) including the set up (water parameters) used to culture these organisms.
Southern Regional Aquaculture Center publication number 454.
Cruising the web and gleaning bits of information over many years from diverse sites including waste management, sewage treatment, aquaponics, aquarium and pond sites, and many others.
My own experiences with raising these bacteria for keeping fresh water fish in aquariums and ponds.
Answering questions in forums about problems people have had doing a fishless or fish-in cycle, and following the corrective measures and results.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 12:48 PM
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If you have ammonia in the tank or nitrites already showing up, it doesn't matter how much nitrate, let it cycle and Leave It Alone. The more water changes you do the more you're delaying your cycle. Water changes only needed if you have livestock, it takes weeks to cycle a tank, unless you put enough bio media from an existing tank.
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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 05-02-2014, 09:35 PM
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I don't think your completely cycled in two days. You probably moved some nitrates over from the other tank.
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